Popehat Oblivion Omods Project (POOP): POOP v2.1 is OUT!

rrmorton · **Posted:** Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:40 am

Chris wrote:

Hmm. Graphics section worked fine, except with more of a performance hit than I'd like. Unfortunately, something in section 3 appears to cause the app to become non-responsive when I leave the tunnel. Windows then wants to kill it. It seems to die if I have the Francesco's stuff installed and not die if I don't, so I'm assuming that's the problem.

Vista, installed to a non-program files location, quad core, 8800GT,etc. I don't have any of the expansions - I wonder if that makes the difference.

I too had a crash around this point in the POOP installation process. From experience (ie Blackhawk), I knew that Wrye Bash and the bashed patch.esp would fix crashing so I pressed onward and I'm not sweating it too much. (Although I've just arrived at the point in the process where I need to cross my fingers and hope I can get it running without crashing again.)

In the other big Oblivion thread, I tried (unsuccessfully) to talk Ken through the process with a more cautious, test-each-mod-as-you-go-by-using-Wrye-Bash approach that worked for me the first time out. This time I'm going with the faster method of dumping all the omods into OBMM and trusting I can fix it all with Wrye Bash.

I bet we'll see quite a few POOPers stumped by crash bugs in the days ahead. Wrye Bash is the cure. It's also the biggest hurdle in trying to make a simplified Oblivion mod compilation. It's an essential utility that works in tandem with OBMM but first it requires you to install some stupid Python scripting language just to run it, then it kind of needs you to get familiar with it.

Andrew · **Posted:** Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:52 am

I'm still working my way through the installation, but I just wanted to say:

triggercut, this is awesome. What an extraordinary labor of love (by you and all of the modders). Thanks.

Chris · **Joined:** Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:35 pm **Posts:** 1124

Python's not stupid! I'm actually a little surprised it's not on this box already.

OK. I'll have faith.

Trig - you might want to mention at the end of section 3 that it might not work. Section 2 has you going into the game and looking around, so I kind of figure that was an ongoing thing.

rrmorton · **Posted:** Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:00 am

Chris wrote:

Python's not stupid! I'm actually a little surprised it's not on this box already.

Well, it sucks that we have to install it. And Wrye Bash is a really stupid name, and the same goes for the folder called Mopy and its bish/bash/bosh/bush contents.

It's never a good sign when the first line of a program's Help File reads: "After you install Wrye Bash, you may find yourself a bit lost in the features."

Chris · **Joined:** Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:35 pm **Posts:** 1124

Nope. Wryebash didn't solve my problems.

rrmorton · **Posted:** Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:02 am

I'm trying to dig into my old Wrye Bash to see which things need to be checked when you run the Rebuild Patch command.

Did you follow Blackhawk's instructions from the post Andon quoted?

David · **Posted:** Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:03 am

Chris wrote:

Python's not stupid!

Significant whitespace?

Stupid.

In contrast, this mod bundle is awesome! Thanks, trig!

Chris · **Joined:** Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:35 pm **Posts:** 1124

rrmorton wrote:

Chris wrote:

Python's not stupid! I'm actually a little surprised it's not on this box already.

Well, it sucks that we have to install it. And Wrye Bash is a really stupid name, and the same goes for the folder called Mopy and its bish/bash/bosh/bush contents.

It's never a good sign when the first line of a program's Help File reads: "After you install Wrye Bash, you may find yourself a bit lost in the features."

No doubt. The empty window's a nice touch too.

David · **Posted:** Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:10 am

It's the "Keep 'em Guessing" UX pattern.

Chris · **Joined:** Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:35 pm **Posts:** 1124

David wrote:

Chris wrote:

Python's not stupid!

Significant whitespace?

Stupid.

In contrast, this mod bundle is awesome! Thanks, trig!

It's not any dumber than requiring ;s at the end of lines. After I hit ; a few thousand times and realize that you could figure it all out from indenting anyway, significant whitespace starts to look appearling.

I messed with my francesco's installs and re-bashed. Things seem better.

rrmorton · **Posted:** Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:16 am

Well, god damn it. Looks like Python and Wrye Bash operate in such a way that installing Oblivion again on a different hard drive makes my old Wrye Bash inoperative. When I click the desktop icon I used to use for it, nothing happens. Time to dig into the WB help file and go hunting for old Blackhawk/Duane posts.

David · **Posted:** Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:16 am

Chris wrote:

David wrote:

Chris wrote:

Python's not stupid!

Significant whitespace?

Stupid.

It's not any dumber than requiring ;s at the end of lines.

Sure it is, for one reason: you can see ;s, and every one of them is significant.
When some whitespace is significant and some not, and you're enslaved to indentation, it's a recipe for ambiguity. (This sort of summarizes my feelings.)

Quote:

I messed with my francesco's installs and re-bashed. Things seem better.

I'm really looking forward to this. I've only just now installed a card capable of doing justice to the game, which I've had for a long time but haven't played.

rrmorton · **Posted:** Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:20 am

Sweet! I found Duane's post here on Popehat... I was worried it was lost over at OO.

Here it is with the relevant section bolded.

Duane wrote:

Brian wrote:

Based on that set of mods, do I have to bite the bullet and install Wrye Bash? I hope not. It seems too scary.

I'd say yes. There are a least a couple on that list that will conflict. Off the top of my head, for instance, there are at least five that may alter guards in some way. Wrye isn't as much of a headache as it looks. Install it, run it, and click the '?' at the bottom for a very well done help file.

To simplify it a bit, there are about ten thousand things Wrye Bash does. 9,999 of them are only needed for specific things not necessarily related to regular gameplay (savegame profiles to switch between multiple 'characters', the ability to import faces from one save into another, etc.) The main thing you need to worry about is the Bashed Patch. Read that section of the help file and you should be able to solve most if not all of your conflicts (it may or may not solve the crash.)

Essentially, it will come down to:

~Select all of your installed mods
~Right click, 'Mark Levelers'
~Right click Bashed Patch.esp, 'Rebuild Patch'
~Select the various options (see the readme, but basically you'll want Import Graphics, NPC Faces, and Race Info if there are entries under those options, plus Leveled Lists. I'd also suggest Import Names with Oblivion.esm checked.)
~Click 'OK', wait a few minutes.
~Ensure that Bashed Patch.esp is the last item in your load order.
~Play.

That's really all there is to it. You'll want to rebuild the patch when you add or remove mods from the game. I do recommend looking closely at the descriptions of the options. There are many, many optional tweaks for the game included in the various 'Tweak X' options when you're rebuilding the patch.) You'll be able to get a solid understanding of it in fifteen minutes, and it will only take two or three if you ever have to do it again.

This install is the first time I've used Wrye Bash, and it is the most stable I've ever had the game. Last time I had 70+ mods and was crashing once per hour. This time I have upwards of 150, and crash maybe once every sixteen hours.

rrmorton · **Posted:** Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:35 am

Quote:

~Select the various options (see the readme, but basically you'll want Import Graphics, NPC Faces, and Race Info if there are entries under those options, plus Leveled Lists. I'd also suggest Import Names with Oblivion.esm checked.)

In addition to these, you'll find a lot of other goodies tucked away in this option menu, some of which overlap with mods we've already POOPed. I'll put asterisks next to the ones I recommend.

Under the TWEAK ASSORTED section, you'll find:

Armor Shows Amulets*
Armor Shows Rings*
Bow Reach Fix
DarNified Books
Max Weight Potions [0.1]
Max Weight Staffs [1]
No Light Flicker
Right Hand Rings*

Under TWEAK CLOTHES you'll find:

Gloves Show Rings*
Max Weight Amulets [0.0]
Max Weight Hoods [0.2]
Max Weight Rings [0.0]
Robes Show Amulets*
Robes Show Pants*
Unlimited Amulets
Unlimited Rings

Under TWEAK NAMES you'll find:

Armor [BL Leather Boots]
Clothes [P Grey Trousers]
Notes and Scrolls [~Fireball]
Potions [XD Illness]
Spells [Fire Ball]
Weapons [B Iron Bow]

(I experimented with these one time and they basically added miscellaneous letters in front of all the inventory items in order that they would appear clustered in groups when alphabetized in your inventory. I'd love to have items sorted better in my backpack, but I hated this attempt at a solution and immediately turned it off.)

Under TWEAK SETTINGS you'll find:

Arrow Litter Count [25]
Arrow Litter Time [1 Minute]
Arrow Recovery From Actor [60%]* (6 out of 10 arrows will be retrievable from a slain foe)
Arrow Speed [x 1.2]
Cell Respawn Time [1 Day]
Chameleon [No Refraction]
Chase Camera Distance [x 1.5]
Chase Camera Tightness [x 1.5]
Combat: Recharge Weapons [Allow]
Compass: Disable [Quests]
Compass: POI Recognition [x0.25]
Essential NPC Unconsciousness [20 Seconds]
Fatigue from Running/Encumbrance [x 2]
Horse Turning Speed [x 1.5]*
Jump Higher [x 1.1]
Magic Bolt Speed [x 1.2]
Msg: Equip Misc. Item [[None]]
PC Death Camera [15 Seconds]

Jacking up the arrow and/or magic bolt speed a notch might appeal to some players. I'm thinking I'll go mage this time out so I might fiddle with that option.

When examining this list of options, you can hover the cursor over anything on the list and read a brief description of what it does in the lower part of the window. If you put checks next to any of these, also make sure to put a check in its category entry on the left side of the window.

On the bright side, you only have to choose these settings once. From then on, it'll use those same selections every time you Rebuild Patch.

Maybe now that I have a better understanding of how this works, I won't be afraid of the Wrye Bash help file and I can try to learn about all those different patch settings. (Ah, who am I kidding?)

rrmorton · **Posted:** Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:34 am

Cool! Wrye Bash did the trick and I'm fully POOPed up and running without crashing to the desktop (right away at least).

But my frame rates are pretty low so I definitely have some tweaking left to do.

triggercut · **Joined:** Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:34 am **Posts:** 398

Chris wrote:

Nope. Wryebash didn't solve my problems.

Hmm. It actually lets you start the game, but doesn't let you out of the sewer tunnel?

Hmm. If I were guessing, I'd say that you had an .esp installed that doesn't have matching content. For instance, do you have not only AWS-Core.esm but also AWS ShiveredIsles.esp installed without SI?

It could be a mis-install of DarNified UI.

I'd start with deactivating both of those OMODs and seeing if you can avoid teh post-tunnel crash.

Tscott · **Joined:** Mon May 05, 2008 11:11 pm **Posts:** 103

I'm looking for readme files in the poop folders or in my oblivion folders, on some of these major gameplay changing mods and not finding any. Most importantly, whatever mod changed the leveling system in the game and what my options are, etc. I've increased my stealth 10 times and now got an automatic +2 (+1 point for every 5) to agility since stealth was a major skill I picked. Meanwhile, my light armor skill keeps increasing, but because I didn't pick that as a main skill I'm not getting a stat bonus. As my character is laid out now there's some stats that I don't think I'll be able to increase at all because I didn't choose a skill that focused on it. Unless there's some other way to level, but according to my stats page I'm still at level 1 with 0% towards the next level.

Otherwise, I've got the game running great with all the mods installed. There's still a performance hit as I run around outside, but other than that everything seems to have installed correctly-- though like others, I'm a lot lost with Wrye Bash. I'm not sure if I answered that confusing Lock Times Off message correctly. Any way to go back and see and change my reply if needed?

rrmorton · **Posted:** Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:15 am

Tscott wrote:

I'm looking for readme files in the poop folders or in my oblivion folders, on some of these major gameplay changing mods and not finding any.

In the right-hand window of OBMM, right-click an omod and hopefully you'll find View Readme. Unfortunately, some of the omods just say Create Readme (including Kobu's) so you'll have to hunt those down yourself. Maybe we can address that issue in future POOPS. Fortunately, we have:

:google:

Kobu's readme. (I need to read up on this one myself.)

Quote:

I'm a lot lost with Wrye Bash. I'm not sure if I answered that confusing Lock Times Off message correctly. Any way to go back and see and change my reply if needed?

In Wrye Bash, right-click where it says File at the top for a context menu with one of the options being Lock Times. I believe you want that off, so make sure there's no checkmark next to it.

The LOD stuff in POOP is amazing. I was playing without that before and its really nice. Costs some FPS but totally worth it.

rrmorton · **Posted:** Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:32 am

rrmorton wrote:

I have a suggestion for the Darnified UI installation section... When it prompts you to select a Custom Font, you might add to your docs that the user can click the image to the right to get a larger view of the different font options. They're hard to see on the little default window but once they're enlarged, you can more easily choose a favorite.

Specifically, I'm referring to section e in your Installing the Game Fixes Folder.doc

A quick follow-up on this... You might add that this image will only appear as a clickable jpg on the right if you first click away from "Default" and on to any of the other fonts in the list.

Also, in section d right before this, you ask the POOPer to: "Hold the CTRL key and pick “Fonts”, “Custom Fonts”, and “No Quest Added Popup.” "Custom Fonts" should instead read "Custom Font 1." I realize this is exceedingly anal, but I think we all want this POOP to come out as smoothly as possible.

Andrew · **Posted:** Wed Jun 11, 2008 2:02 pm

I haven't actually gotten into the modified game yet, but installing POOP last night was pretty fun. I started getting the "just one more turn" urge that I usually experience with the Civ or Total War games, and ended up staying up past midnight to get everything in place.

Maybe tonight I'll get around to seeing what all that stuff does in-game!

Chris · **Joined:** Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:35 pm **Posts:** 1124

Andrew wrote:

I haven't actually gotten into the modified game yet, but installing POOP last night was pretty fun. I started getting the "just one more turn" urge that I usually experience with the Civ or Total War games, and ended up staying up past midnight to get everything in place.

Maybe tonight I'll get around to seeing what all that stuff does in-game!

Yeah. So far I've enjoyed the troubleshooting more than I enjoyed Oblivion.

Tscott · **Joined:** Mon May 05, 2008 11:11 pm **Posts:** 103

rrmorton wrote:

Tscott wrote:

I'm looking for readme files in the poop folders or in my oblivion folders, on some of these major gameplay changing mods and not finding any.

In the right-hand window of OBMM, right-click an omod and hopefully you'll find View Readme. Unfortunately, some of the omods just say Create Readme (including Kobu's) so you'll have to hunt those down yourself. Maybe we can address that issue in future POOPS. Fortunately, we have:

:google:

Kobu's readme. (I need to read up on this one myself.)

Thanks. After all I went through, I wasn't even sure which mod it was that made those changes (a downside to following a package like this rather than hunting them all down yourself). I'll have to look through it in detail to see what leveling rules I like, or if I want to disable it and go back to the original way.

Octavious230 · **Joined:** Sun Apr 13, 2008 12:08 am **Posts:** 343

My poop seems to be running pretty darn good. Played for about an hour last night and didn't notice any problems. I think I'm gifted at pooping. :thumb:

I need to add/find the mod that makes the grass shorter. I feel like whipping out a weedwacker every time I'm running through the woods.

triggercut · **Joined:** Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:34 am **Posts:** 398

Poop Docs v1.1 are available here!

Tscott · **Joined:** Mon May 05, 2008 11:11 pm **Posts:** 103

triggercut wrote:

Poop Docs v1.1 are available here!

Awesome, thanks.

Regarding load order: I've got AWS-Core 1.0 installed (it's blue in the right window of OBMM), but I don't see "AWS-Core.esm" or "AWS-ShiveringIsles.esp" listed in the left hand side. I tried double clicking to disable and again to reinstall, but I still don't see those two files.

Also, Dude, where's the "Dude Wheres My Horse.exp" supposed to go?

EDIT:
And the load order in Wrye Bash is different than the order that I've now got in OBMM and I don't see a way to change it. Is this a problem?

rrmorton · **Posted:** Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:06 pm

Wrye Bash is probably just sorting the list of esp's alphabetically. Don't worry, OBMM has your load order and Wrye Bash won't mess with it, as long as that Lock Times setting is turned off.

Andon · **Joined:** Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:22 pm **Posts:** 4

something isn't right about AWS-CORE omod. I also do not have the ESM or the ESP, had to manually extract them from the archive to get them to install in the data directory.

rrmorton · **Posted:** Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:25 am

Hmm, you're right. I don't have those showing up in my esm/esp list either.

triggercut · **Joined:** Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:34 am **Posts:** 398

You guys are right.

AWS caused me the most OMOD problems, mostly because the guy who created it packed it in a godawful way. I went through a dozen different versions to get it to install properly, and still have to go back and fiddle with the data folder.

Anyway, try this:

http://www.popnarcotic.com/AWS-Core1.0.omod (Right-click and "save as")

That *should* install properly. Tell me if it works. Those of you having crash leaving the sewers problems, this might fix them.

Sorry about that guys.

Andon · **Joined:** Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:22 pm **Posts:** 4

No worries, happy to be beta testing for ya. If I could make another recommendation you should keep all your updates/changes packaged in the same directory structure (minus the original files) as the original POOP. So when they're unRARed to the directory they will overwrite and/or add to the correct directories. This will also allow you to host a 2nd smaller POOP update that will integrate into the original POOP with little effort.

triggercut · **Joined:** Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:34 am **Posts:** 398

Andon wrote:

No worries, happy to be beta testing for ya. If I could make another recommendation you should keep all your updates/changes packaged in the same directory structure (minus the original files) as the original POOP. So when they're unRARed to the directory they will overwrite and/or add to the correct directories. This will also allow you to host a 2nd smaller POOP update that will integrate into the original POOP with little effort.

Yep, that's next. Right now just sort of doing hotfixes though!

Tscott · **Joined:** Mon May 05, 2008 11:11 pm **Posts:** 103

Thanks again for all your hard work. I've got AWS working now (and I've got lower framerates, and a lovely morning fog, to prove it

) and Oblivion is working beautifully using almost all the mods from POOP (Real Lights is the only thing I completely skipped).

I've played way too long today, and I've hardly got away from the prison tunnel. This time I've just be going from dungeon to dungeon as I come across them. I'm on my third one and getting a little out of my league with skeletons that are regenerating after I kill them.

I'm coming to enjoy the "Great Wheel" path of destiny from Kobus Mod. It gives instant modifiers to attributes, based on what skills you're leveling up, plus every level you get 3 points to put in attributes of your choice.

I did have about 4 in game crashes today though. All happened in Sideways Cave as I was fighting different Imps using the flare spell. Don't know if the problem was with the cave, the imps, the spell, or a combo of all 3.

Octavious230 · **Joined:** Sun Apr 13, 2008 12:08 am **Posts:** 343

I played for about 2 hours yesterday and aside from it getting a bit choppy in some places I haven't had a single crash. :thumb:

For some reason I can't get the screenshots to work even though I enabled it in the ini.. I had a couple of really good things I wanted to take screenies of.

I'll have to figure that out tonight. Thanks agian Triggy I never would have installed all of this stuff again if it wasn't for this. :cheers:

Tscott · **Joined:** Mon May 05, 2008 11:11 pm **Posts:** 103

Anyone know a good way to change and save the video settings in the game after its been modded up? I'm trying to turn the grass visibility way down and the tree shadows off, among other things, to try to get better framerates. However, because the game crashes on exit now, those settings aren't being saved and I have to reset them every time.

rrmorton · **Posted:** Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:45 am

Hey, I just saw that Tom Chick blogged about POOP over at Fidgit. Cool!

Nice of him to say it all installs from one file... :secret:

rrmorton · **Posted:** Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:09 am

Tscott wrote:

Anyone know a good way to change and save the video settings in the game after its been modded up? I'm trying to turn the grass visibility way down and the tree shadows off, among other things, to try to get better framerates. However, because the game crashes on exit now, those settings aren't being saved and I have to reset them every time.

Hit tilde to open the console then type "saveini". No space. If you type "save ini" with a space in between it'll create a save game called "ini". :joker:

You might also want to experiment with Streamline by hitting CTRL-HOME. That has FPS smoothing that will auto-adjust various graphics settings to try to maintain a min & max frame rate that you select.

Tscott · **Joined:** Mon May 05, 2008 11:11 pm **Posts:** 103

rrmorton wrote:

Tscott wrote:

Anyone know a good way to change and save the video settings in the game after its been modded up? I'm trying to turn the grass visibility way down and the tree shadows off, among other things, to try to get better framerates. However, because the game crashes on exit now, those settings aren't being saved and I have to reset them every time.

Hit tilde to open the console then type "saveini". No space. If you type "save ini" with a space in between it'll create a save game called "ini". :joker:

You might also want to experiment with Streamline by hitting CTRL-HOME. That has FPS smoothing that will auto-adjust various graphics settings to try to maintain a min & max frame rate that you select.

This is weird and frustrating, but my console doesn't work. I found this Tweak Guide for Oblivion and followed that to check that bAllowConsole=1 is in my Oblivion.ini file (it is), but nothing happens when I hit ~.

rrmorton · **Posted:** Fri Jun 13, 2008 4:20 am

Jeez, what a pain.

I found this forum discussion which says you might just need the legendary Ring of Console! :nod:

Good luck!

Tscott · **Joined:** Mon May 05, 2008 11:11 pm **Posts:** 103

I kind of, sort of solved my problem with the console. Apparently, this is just one of those things that "sometimes happens with Vista"

and someone has made a "Ring of Console" mod to get around the problem.

I've now saved my ini how I want it, and can finally use the tdt command to see what my FPS are. Inside, I'm around 50-60 FPS. Outside in town, I'm anywhere from 20-60 FPS, and in places like the waterfront I'm at a lousy 5-15 FPS. Yuck.

EDIT: Jinks! Buy me a Coke!

rrmorton · **Posted:** Fri Jun 13, 2008 4:22 am

Wow, my post solved your problem in less than a minute. Am I really that good?

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