Charles Carreon Encounters Actual Legal Consequences

You may also like...

86 Responses

  1. DP says:

    I think you mean "Matthew Inman of the Oatmeal"

  2. Caudex says:

    I can't wait to see Missus Carreon react to this. I wonder how long it'll take her to invoke Godwin's Law? And yes, I've ventured onto her little echo chamber. (My sanity was not in danger, since I'm already deranged.)

  3. SassQueen says:

    Prenda and Chaz both getting boned? April is like the awesomest month ever.

  4. Tali McPike says:

    Justice Is Sweet! I'm just waiting for Tara's crazy rant on how Judge Seeborg is part of the Illuminati conspiracy and is being paid by Techdirt, Ken, et al., as well as some promise of appeal.

  5. Jordan says:

    Is this a final ruling? Can/will Carreon appeal this?

  6. shg says:

    It reminds me of that joke about 100 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean. Somebody, whether the satirical blogger, or Public Citizen, or Cathy, will have to eat the balance. At least Carreon will feel the sting. I only hope he has assets.

  7. Mark says:

    Now it would be good time to remind CC …

    That a judgment can be renewed indefinitely until collected, and that California judgments accrue 10% interest, which can compounded once ever ten years by capitalizing the accumulated interest

  8. Michael says:

    Is there no way to inflict punishment, over and above the award of fees, for the behavior he has displayed?

  9. John Ammon says:

    Muahahaha. Justice!

    Sad that he can still technically practice law… but I guess you can't win them all.

  10. RavingRambler says:

    @John Technically, yes, but who would hire him? His search results are likely going to be dominated by this debacle for ages to come.

  11. John Ammon says:

    @RavingRambler – True enough. But there are people who don't do research on the internet first (far more than I'd like to think about actually)

  12. Wondering says:

    I'm glad for the ruling. But I have a feeling he'll find a way to evade actually paying the money.

    Didn't he sue Toyota for repo-ing his car?

  13. Lucy says:

    That's a lot of money. If he wasn't just so awful, someone might feel bad for him. He really is just so incredibly out there awful though.

    It is nice to see the system work.

    So it's there a remaining $30,000 balance to be paid or was Satirical Charles's representation based on an awarded/pro bono basis?

    Great job Mr. Levy!

    :-)

  14. apauld says:

    @RavingRambler – Thought you might like to read this article from about two weeks ago: 'Internet Lawyer' Charles Carreon Has A New Best Friend And He's An SEO Expert Who Hates Anonymous Critics

  15. nlp says:

    @John, but remember, he specializes in Internet Law.

  16. sta says:

    Not including fees in the offer of judgment? Rookie mistake.

  17. John says:

    Oh my god this is fantastic. What's the site the Tara posts her craziness at? Some site pretending to be a library… I can't remember the address

  18. azteclady says:

    Good people do good things–I'm pretty sure both Satirical Charles and Mr Levy are very grateful for all you do, Ken.

    So are we. Thank you.

  19. John says:

    Found it:

    http://www.naderlibrary.com/bulletin_board/viewtopic.php?t=896&start=200

    Hopefully we'll get some more laughs out of that soon

  20. NotPiffany says:

    Heh. I love the "BOOM Headshot" tag. May we have the opportunity to see it again someday.

  21. TerryTowels says:

    I wish the title had read "Chapter IVX: In Which Charles Carreon Encounters Actual Legal Consequences"

    Also, Levy had really nice things to say about you, Ken. Congrats, you help to uplift the image of lawyers.

  22. TerryTowels says:

    Arghhh. Chapter XIV

  23. Trebuchet says:

    @apauld: That link (for CC's new best friend) is made of pure awesome. Be sure to follow the link for Tom Forrest's resume. Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles! He'll probably be spamming Ken any day now.

  24. RavingRambler says:

    @apauld Oh. My. Goodness. The crazy is strong with this one, stronger than we knew.

  25. Tali McPike says:

    Well, Tara has posted something tonight. Its just not anything specifically about the case, just about suffering

  26. Kelly says:

    Finally, *some* justice. Now, how long will it take to wring the money out of him?

    Also, that 'CC's new best friend' article was awesome!

  27. apauld says:

    @Trebuchet – did you read Forrest's comments to others commenting on the story? Just Crazy. The last person to respond like that to stories involving them on techdirt was …. Tara Carreon! Yep, Charles wife; she kept us greatly entertained there for quite a long time.
    @RavingRambler – I found it interesting that birds of a feather do indeed flock together

  28. Tali McPike says:

    @Apauld did you notice Tara wrote a rant/poem about Techdirt and Anonymous Coward? I swear, if I didn't know better, I'd say Tara was Forrest, perhaps they are at least friends from the hippie commune or something.

  29. En Passant says:

    SassQueen wrote Apr 12, 2013 @3:02 pm:

    April is like the awesomest month ever.

    Bleeding
    Sanctions from litigious asshats, needing
    Benchslaps to the face; feeding
    Popcorn forward markets fresh cash.

    Oatmeal warmed us up, freezing
    All in forgetful suspense, awaiting
    Process service on evasive counsel.

    But Wright surprised us, gaveling from another bench
    Orders to show cause. With Penda henchmen caviling,
    We ambled in his brilliance over to Popehat,
    And drank coffee, and talked for hours.

    OK Old Possum, I'll turn in my doggerel license now.

  30. Delvan Neville says:

    @Tali McPike:

    You're working for the evil Penguin and the donkey people, too. I just know it!

  31. That Anonymous Coward says:

    @apauld – SEO dude owes me like $25K. He made the offer, I accepted and told him where to send the cash. Mike's not emailed me yet to say its arrived.

    So finally this story has an ending.
    There was a new effect term coined, we met his wife O_O , and learned that justice does work.

    The problem for me is I'm from the age of the cashing in movie sequels, so I have this feeling this isn't the final chapter and some bad cross promotion will revive the franchise.

  32. Narad says:

    Character is destiny.

    "Ηθος ανθρωπω δαιμων." One of Heraclitus's greatest hits. I don't know that I'd go for daimon as "destiny," but I do so hope that Charles and Tara are able to connect the dots between the pre-Socratics and their own Buddhist posturing, so that it really leaves a mark.

  33. apauld says:

    I just realized that the one person who hasn't been thanked and praised for all of this is popehat commenter Chris R.; if it wasn't for Chris making a serious stand for his own first amendment rights (in the face of seemingly great adversity) Carreon (and possibly others like him in the future) would still feel free to be a censorious douchebag(s). Chris could've caved to the pressure and retreated but didn't. So thank you Chris, I hope you and your family are doing well now and into the future. Paul.

  34. Narad says:

    That link (for CC's new best friend) is made of pure awesome.

    The fact that they immediately started posting stooge reviews on Yelp is priceless.

  35. orvis barfley says:

    you are a good guy, ken white.  i am pleased to share the surface of this planet with the likes of you out there somewhere.

  36. darius404 says:

    In the comments for that article, #44 Tom Forrest posts somewhat of a rebuttal, touting HTP Company as "#1 all over the world for "Internet Advertising Company" on Google". One trip to Google later, this turns out to be true.

    On a whim, I googled "HTP Company". In addition to it's own website and it's LinkedIn profile, I noticed the top search results included reviews of HTP…. by Ripoff Report and Yelp.

    One of the Yelp reviewers had something interesting to say about his correspondence with HTP. To wit, he felt business with HTP was mismanaged, and after complaining of this he received what amounted to a legal threat from one Charles Carreon.

  37. nlp says:

    To wit, he felt business with HTP was mismanaged, and after complaining of this he received what amounted to a legal threat from one Charles Carreon.

    "And the seasons, they go round and round, and the painted ponies go up and down. We're captives on the carousel of time."

    If Charles Carreon is intent on making a fool of himself all over again then I have to start investing in popcorn companies. (Please note: the ponies referred to are not actually alive).

  38. Gal says:

    Can't stop laughing at the replies to "Anonymous Coward."

  39. OngChotwI says:

    Adam Steinbaugh tweeted this link to Penguin suing Carreon in Oregon: http://ia801703.us.archive.org/4/items/gov.uscourts.ord.111367/gov.uscourts.ord.111367.1.0.pdf

  40. Nicholas Weaver says:

    Don't celebrate yet. Charles is amazingly judgement proof: His house is within the limit and his car is a dented door away from Arizona's bankruptcy protections for personal property, and given how badly he is at paying his bills, it is doubtful he has any other assets.

    In fact, even the $8K for ducking service and refusing to pay for it when asked is probably unpayable. And that was a bulletproof motion.

    Thus his decision to go "Full Carreon" in objecting to fees in the way he did rather than just say Your honor, the letter may have been a douchebag move, but its not an exceptional douchebag move makes sense: $8K, $80K, $800K, its all unpayable. So why not make the unpayable amount as big as possible?

    Thus my bet ($100, payable to public citizen. Any takers? No?): Charles will attempt to delay and appeal. The only thing which might limit his appeals are bond requirements, and he's going to move that he can't afford any such bond.

  41. Nicholas Weaver says:

    Oh, and if anyone gets a threat from Charles Carreon in his capacity as an attorney for someone else (like said SEO dude): His office is in his house in Arizona. Which, according to the Arizona Bar, means he is probably practicing law without a license.

  42. That Anonymous Coward says:

    @Nicholas Weaver – so what your saying is it would be a bad idea for me to try and get Charles to represent me against the SEO guy not holding to his word?

    https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130326/20073922475/internet-lawyer-charles-carreon-has-new-best-friend-hes-seo-expert-who-hates-anonymous-critics.shtml#c1636

  43. Ken says:

    Tara speaks. Because securing a complete victory for the client, vindicating their rights, and being awarded $46k in attorney fees is blowing smoke up the client's ass.

  44. That Anonymous Coward says:

    @Ken – Its like Geocities never closed…. my eyes they burn…

  45. Trebuchet says:

    @Trebuchet – did you read Forrest's comments to others commenting on the story? Just Crazy.

    Oh yeah! Not just crazy, but illiterate to boot! I love the other commenter correcting his grammar and spelling! I'd almost bet a dollar that HTP Company consists of Forrest and nobody else. His CV shows two stints at running HTP with a brief period of a real job in between. And don't forget: Intercontinental Ballistic Missles! Complete with a link to Wikipedia!

  46. Nicholas Weaver says:

    Ken, it's like Tara isn't trying anymore. I was hoping for at least .2 Cox of craziness here. Instead we get this millicox of weaksauce. Where is the photoshopped penises? Where is the bad song?

  47. Lucy says:

    She seems to have a strange affection for poop and orifices and running on hate.

    Someone should let her know the natural remedies aren't working, she should give real pharmaceuticals a chance.

  48. Lucy says:

    Holy cow! That Tom guy just took on every commenter on that article. I just skimmed, but from what I saw, it was like… just who does that kind of thing??? Just arguing with everybody, like a drunk Chihuahua barging into a perfectly nice back yard BBQ and nipping at all the ankles. I couldn't read all the way through. I don't have the stomach for that kind of embarrassment. Just, wow.

  49. Nate2002 says:

    I'm amused that without the ridiculous lengths he went to in order to object to fees he's ended up with a huge judgement against him. $8k would probably have been doable, hell, he just needs a couple of those SEO guys to represent and it's sorted. But $46k is the cost of some people's homes. It just reflects what's been his problem all along, the doubling down and going all in. I agree that by $46k it's probably not gonna get paid off, is there no way to garnish earnings?

    Interesting that Tara uses the English spelling of arse in that cartoon. And I'm also incredibly disappoint over the lack of dicks. Also…does she really think that Chris was/is paying $700 an hour (and thus will be stuck paying their debt)? I don't think she understands how pro bono works. Really, of all the responses she could have made, that's woefully lacking. TC, I am disappoint!

  50. ChrisTS says:

    What in the name of anything is that woman's site? Apart from eye-blasting 'graphics,' I can only see one vulgarity laden rant after another (ok, there is the very finely drawn cartoon [cough]).

    This particular group of evil crazies is new to me (started visiting here for recent Prenda stuff). I just have no idea what to make of it.

    I also wish someone would explain to me what she thinks Buddhism has to do with it.

  51. azteclady says:

    ChrisTS, I think that for any of the Tara/Charles Carreon BS to make sense, a person has to be under the influence of something strong–really strong.

  52. ChrisTS says:

    @azteclady: So, it will all be clear to me around 8:00 PM? :-)

  53. GrimGhost says:

    @ChrisTS — if you can score some hallucinogenic mushrooms in the meantime, then yes. Or LSD. Mere ethanol alone won't put you in TC's frame of mind, no matter how much you drink.

  54. apauld says:

    @TAC – I think your trying to accept his offer is what made him finally STFU. I should also mention (since I didn't at the time) that your comment:
    *pulls doll out of thin air*
    show us on the doll where the bad press touched you
    was brilliant.
    @Tali – I wondered if Tara and Tom were huffin' the same brand of glue

  55. orvis barfley says:

    and here, all this time, i thought tara was the name of a house.  silly me.

    if my ship ever does come in, i've got the name ready for the eyesore i plan to build: thistle dew.

  56. Dan Weber says:

    just who does that kind of thing?

    An SEO wizard, obviously.

    It will be very very hard to get any actual money out of Carreon. Can one get a lien on a debtor's house effectively?

    I'm glad the SEO wizard is paying Carreon money, though. That gives Plaintiff something to seize.

  57. Narad says:

    I also wish someone would explain to me what she thinks Buddhism has to do with it.

    Charles and Tara were apparently at one time Lamaists, with Gyatrul Rinpoche as guru. Then, after leaving the compound and getting the law degree, etc., they tried to return and were bitterly disappointed in the process, with Tara ultimately claiming some version of Stockholm syndrome or something. I have no idea what sort of weird metaphysical glop they're stewing in now. You can check out Charles's "50 Ways to Leave Your Lama" or Tara's strange collage about nihilism (which confirms, to me at least, that all the prostrations and mantras notwithstanding, she never ever had the slightest philosophical grasp of the Buddhist part of "Tibetan Buddhism").

    I have little interest in plumbing the depths of this, but my general impression is that Tara got pissed off about being passed over in the hierarchy and not being declared a reincarnated Bodhisattva or some such. I have little doubt that she could readily liken koans to "Illuminati puzzles" at this point, and the whole thing seems to permeate her conspiratorial worldview.

  58. Dan Weber says:

    http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/04/the-madness-ends-lawyer-charles-carreon-to-pay-46100/

    Update says Charles Carreon has gotten new clients from all this. So, good news, he's not indigent!

  59. Joe Pullen says:

    The Prius is gettin repoed for sure. Like Nicholas I don't trust that he won't attempt another douche move and attempt to appeal it up the chain if for no reason than to drive up legal fees for Satirical Chaz.

  60. Nicholas Weaver says:

    The Prius won't be repo-ed: AZ bankruptcy protects a 5k car which sounds about right for an abused 10yr old Prius if Charles puts a couple dents in the doors accidentally.

  61. Rusty says:

    Holy Keeerriiisttt – read a couple of Tara's well thought out brain dumps and all I can say is: Deb Frisch lives!

  62. Tali McPike says:

    @Dan Webber, my bet is, at least one of those new clients is Forrest, our SEO Wizard friend, as darius404 pointed out that yelp review mentions (as does Forrest in the comments on Techdirt) that Carreon is HTP's legal counsel.

    @apauld no doubt, there is something connecting them, their flavor of crazy is much too similar.

  63. John David Galt says:

    There are consequences for bad behavior. They come slowly. But they do come.

    They came for one rather inept bad guy, but only because he was able to find a "dream team" for free (major attaboys to Ken and Levy!) That's a far cry from proving the general case, especially in cases where officials are the bad guys.

    It's progress. But we need to know how to multiply it.

  64. That Anonymous Coward says:

    @apauld – He offered me $25K cash why would I not accept?
    I set Mike up to work as my proxy and offered him half of the cash for Insider status on TechDirt for life for accepting the payment on my behalf.
    The doll comment just sorta happened around the time I was calling him Mr. Butthurt. I felt it was classier than a Waaambulance comment, and was far more entertaining. His repertoire of comments seemed to run out of steam after puffing up his chest about how awesome he was and I started pointing out the virtual offices and how he was creating an awesome public record for potential clients to see how he works, poorly. He then fell back on the tried and true 'I'm taking my ball and leaving!'… and came right back.

    I'd like to think I am doing an awesome job of redeeming the epithet 'That Anonymous Coward'.

  65. Cea says:

    The "inartful drafter." Carreon is now a character in a Dickens novel.

  66. Clownius says:

    Ken please never link a site that evil again.

    Beyond the absolute levels of Butthurt the site itself is a disaster. First time in a very long time i have seen such a badly coded site. It even froze my computer at one point……

    The rant though was amazing. It appears we are not dealing with sane people there…..

  67. apauld says:

    @TAC – You have.

    I guess I was extra jazzed about your doll comment, because it was a great response to my intentionally watered down question to mr forrest.
    I had been sitting on my couch, discussing the story with my son, who was here for his high school's spring break, when one of us found a picture of "the world's #1 SEO consultant." A picture that was put online by "the world's #1 SEO consultant" himself. After discussing the article and the issues around it and then looking at the picture that mr #1 SEO guy put of himself online, my (17 year old) son stated that "maybe you shouldn't make fun him, he seems kinda pathetic."
    Though once he responded to my watered down question with his cookie cutter bile, it would have been game on again; but alas he did finally take his ball and go home.

  68. That Anonymous Coward says:

    @Clownius – That webpage was nothing, pray to whatever you hold holy that you never stumble upon a page maintained by Crystal Cox.

    @apauld – I tend to not water things down, especially when dealing with someone who seems to delight in trying to show how much better they are than other people who dare to question them. (This would explain my repeated run-ins with Copyright Trolls)

    Oh my FSM, I hadn't bothered to look for a picture of him until now. He struck me as being tone deaf and to wrapped up in his 'skills' to understand the internet, and it looks like I was right. O_O

    Anyone who disagreed with him was a moron, and he had all of these accomplishments to back up why he was better than everyone else. Which mirrors the interactions with Charles and Tara, I did these cool things that one time and it should buy me a pass on things.

    It gives me concern, we've all seen the current 'entitled' generation. Kids who fresh out of college expect to be Sr. VPs and globe hopping by the 2nd week on the job, have we missed an Older Generation who are to smug in their tenuous grasp of technology that was cutting edge 15 yrs ago and think that gives them a pass forever?

  69. Kirk Taylor says:

    After mere minutes on Tara's website, I became convinced that everything she's writing is a desperate attempt to get someone like Ken to sue her for defamation so she can play the hypocrite card.

  70. Mark says:

    That's funny: charlescarreon.com is redirecting right now to music.viddyapp.com that has a Ramones video embedded.

  71. ChrisTS says:

    @Grim Ghost

    "if you can score some hallucinogenic mushrooms in the meantime, then yes. Or LSD. Mere ethanol alone won't put you in TC's frame of mind, no matter how much you drink."

    Well, I did my best with what I had on hand and did manage to forget most of yesterday.

  72. Caudex says:

    @ChrisTS, @Grim Ghost
    I got my hands on, in the words of Hunter S. Thompson, “…two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, and a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers… and also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of Budweiser, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls."
    Miz Carreon's site becomes less "demented ravings" and more "rantings of eldritch creatures beyond space and time" when you're tripping on all of the aforementioned. It's glorious.

  73. Caudex says:

    @Mark, I'm guessing he's trying to dodge a DDOS–there's a method of combating DDOSes that involves redirecting like that. I'd doubt it's someone else, since Chas loves him some Ramones.

  74. Chad Miller says:

    Kirk Taylor: Novel theory, but it goes back a lot further than that. You should see the stuff she put up during the Bush administration. And by "see" I mean "avoid, particularly at work".

    Speaking of hypocrites, one thing she (temporarily) deleted included a picture of a journalist she didn't like photoshopped to have a penis in each hand. This was fun to point out right around the time that "rapeutation" site went up.

  75. Narad says:

    In a perhaps amusing sidelight, when I went looking for Tara's opinions on Zen, I stumbled across a posting on leonardcohenforum.com. The back story is that Kelley Lynch, Cohen's former business manager, was found in 2005 to have stolen about $5 million from Cohen over the years, and Cohen got a $9.5 million judgment (which she never paid, of course; last year, she was sentenced to 18 months for continued harassment).

    So, apparently Lynch had some history with… Tara and Charles! This seems to tie back to Tara's resentment over June Campbell. As for Zen, all one gets is Charles's "review" of Cohen's Ten New Songs. Apparently, he doesn't like either. (Although, as a subitist of the Huineng variety, I can't say I think much myself of the Japanese fixation on zazen.)

  76. Narad says:

    Miz Carreon's site becomes less "demented ravings" and more "rantings of eldritch creatures beyond space and time" when you're tripping on all of the aforementioned.

    Her repudiation of ayahuasca is not to be missed.

  77. Notme says:

    All the concern over hypocrisy and dementia overlook one clear explanation: trolls gonna troll.

  78. Mark says:

    It is worth nothing that Ms Gellis also blogged about this.

    http://www.cathygellis.com/soi/2013/04/this-is-why-i-became-a-lawyer.html

  79. Lucy says:

    She explained details of his exceptional behavior.

    Dealing with him was no easy feat. Like she says, legal professionals simply shouldn't behave that way.

    Thanks for that link. Nice work Ms. Gellis!

  80. Steve Florman says:

    How much in legal fees is Inman still on the hook for?

  81. Mark says:

    TC's radio silence seems to indicate that CC is probably going to appeal. Hmm… Probably shouldn't put the popcorn down yet.

  1. April 12, 2013

    [...] "Character is destiny." [...]

  2. April 15, 2013

    [...] man, and the world is filled with numerous censorious douchebags. Mr. Levy even helped me recently claim a valant victory over the forces of censorship, legal thuggery, and bad behavior. This is why we need a national [...]

  3. May 1, 2013

    [...] in case where attorney Charles Carreon menaced blogger [Michael Masnick/TechDirt, Paul Alan Levy, Popehat, earlier here and [...]