If Tomorrow I Tell The Press That, Like, A Fat Kid Will Get Humiliated, Or A Nerd Will Be Slapped, Nobody Panics, Because It's All "Part Of The Plan." But When I Say That One Little Bully Will Get His Ankle Broken, Well Then Everyone Loses Their Minds!

83 Comments

TJIC • Mar 15, 2011 @12:47 pm

Like you, I watched this video a dozen times or so this morning.

LOVED it.

My life got noticeably better in middle school when I started uncorking physically on anyone who initiated physical bullying against me.

You don't have to win a fight; you just have to make the cost of being a bully higher than the benefit.

> "We don’t believe that violence is ever the answer"

F___ that static.

Violence is OFTEN the answer.

#include Heinlein
aczarnowski • Mar 15, 2011 @1:13 pm

No surprise, I'm with TJIC and Patrick on this one. It took me far too long to learn that violence sometimes does solve the problem. Once learned, I was free of my damned bullies forever more.

Coincidentally, my wife mentioned the other day how she really wished she had been taught this same wisdom earlier than her 30s. She grew up in an early form of the "violence never solves anything" family and recognizes now she suffered for it. Walk softly and carry a big stick kids.
Reformed Republican • Mar 15, 2011 @1:15 pm

I have developed a theory that the one of the reasons for increased bullying (if it really is increasing), is that it is a result of policies that punish a victim for defending himself. The victims are typically the kids who want to stay out of trouble, so they are not willing to risk the suspension or even expulsion that could result from self-defense. The bullies obviously do not care.
Mike • Mar 15, 2011 @1:18 pm

I armed my son with the support that if he got in trouble defending himself against bullies that he would not be in trouble with me. Just possessing the confidence that protecting himself would not result in getting in trouble at home (even if he got kicked out of his private school) fixed the problem.

But it is sweet the way that little punk gets his ass kicked.
m • Mar 15, 2011 @1:48 pm

I was bullied throughout elementary school and junior high and never fought back because the one time I did, I was punished, both at school and home. Needless to say, my children will have better options…

Way to go, kid. That insecure bully needed a wakeup call. Hopefully, he reforms…
Jack • Mar 15, 2011 @1:51 pm

Little known fact, this kid is now being recruited by an advanced battle school and will go on to destroy an insect like alien race referred to by humans as The Buggers.
C Wiley • Mar 15, 2011 @1:54 pm

I did just what Mike did. We also take our kids to the MMA gym where we do boxing and kickboxing, and they take kids' Brazilian jiu jitsu classes. If my son wrenches some bully's shoulder out of socket in self-defense, I WILL get him a medal. Maybe I should design and market a bully-ass-kicking medal and accompanying "My Kid Kicked Your Bullying Kid's Ass" bumper sticker.
Megan • Mar 15, 2011 @1:59 pm

Actually, according to the school's principal, the bully only suffered "a grazed knee," and was also suspended.
PEBKAC • Mar 15, 2011 @2:05 pm

What is even more disturbing is that the policies also propagate the notion from an early age that defending yourself is not okay, which affects views later in life and I would imagine makes for a much more passive crop of people overall. And we wonder why so few get very angry very publicly when the government starts bullying us.

Seriously, fat kid deserves a medal. That is how you are supposed to handle bullies.
Scott Jacobs • Mar 15, 2011 @2:07 pm

Hit 'em again, fatty! HIT HIM AGAIN!

While the moronic "experts" claim that violence isn't the answer, I'll bet you money that little fucker doesn't pick on the chubby kid again. Hell, I bet no one picks on fatty again.

Hell, I'm proud of the kid. I wanna buy him a freaking ice cream cone.
Goober • Mar 15, 2011 @2:09 pm

I am so sick of hearing people say that violence is not the answer – especially when these people are some of the same ilk that bussed into Wisconsin to get their way and were quite violent about it, over and over again.

Violence is not a good solution, and is never preferrable, but it CAN be necessary and is often times the ONLY solution to a problem.

I watched this video and do not understand how it is acceptable for the smaller kid to hit the bigger kid – something which i assume he did regularly judging from the familiarity with it that he obviously has – but when the bigger kid hits back that is wrong. Can someone explain that to me?

I intend to make it clear to my children, when they are old enough to understand, that while there will be consequences for fighting back against bullies that comes down from the school system, that I will never punish them for defending themselves, even if it means that I have to pay for private schools when they get expelled.
Scott Jacobs • Mar 15, 2011 @2:12 pm

PS – I find the quote "Never be afraid to be the first to resort to violence" to be rather fitting here.

And as for "“We don’t believe that violence is ever the answer,”"…

Well, just ask the city leaders of Nagasaki and Hiroshima circa late 1945 what they think of that statement…
Grandy • Mar 15, 2011 @2:23 pm

I'm confused about something. I have seen it said that the so-called experts say you should be reporting bullying to an adult, because reciprocal violence usually escalates things. I don't know if it that is true or not. I have seen no evidence to suggest how anything works (I don't count my own anedoctal evidence as meaningful here). I don't feel like I can reject any of the current beliefs because I have no evdience to support any position one way or another except my own (which flies in the face of "just tell an adult" somewhat). I would like to see the evidence that suggests that this is the preferred course of action and why. Certainly violence can solve problems in the short run while creating far more in the longer run.

But I wonder about how well the "tell an adult" strategy works. Maybe it works great, but in my day that was a no no unless something particularly severe happened. If you ran to a teacher every time some kid leered at you then you just got picked on, and yes bullied, much worse. I understand where someone would want to properly teach children that it's ok to tell an adult, but I don't see how that would magically be effective in today's day and age when it wasn't a few decades ago. I see nothing in technology or modern sociological/pscyhological/mythological beliefs to suggest that teaching that is magically easier than it used to be. Maybe in most of the country it worked a few decades ago and I just had rotten luck, but I kind of doubt it.

I can say that I had instances of being bullied as a child where I sought adult aid and it didn't help. I'm quite certain in some of these situations the problem very much had to do with the adults being clueless as to how to approach the situation. But I'm just having a hard time seeing proper training being the answer if words aren't backed with NUCLEAR WEAPONS, you know?

I don't condone with the big kid did here, but neither do I condemn it. What do you want him to do? The little ratty kid pinned him to the wall and punched him in the face about as hard as he could. And then started going for body shots. Yelling for miss is just going to make things worse later, I think.
Miskellaneous • Mar 15, 2011 @2:43 pm

Ahem, true story (kinda proud actually).

My son, in Kindergarten overheard another boy "telling lies" about a girl in the class over lunch. "Lies" in this case meaning, nasty untrue stories about her control of the functions of elimination.

At the time, he says, he did nothing because he was not allowed to do anything and the teacher did "nothing" when told about the incident. He made it through another half hour of recess following lunch without doing anything. He was, he says, angry about it the whole time. Reported it to another teacher and again, the staff said nothing to the bully.

Then, while on line to return to the classroom, my son was lined up behind the bully. He could not stand it anymore and gave the bully a good head butt to the back of the head in retaliation for the bad behavior.

Of course, now the teacher was interested in what was going on. She hears about the bully, and talks to my boy about his reasons. No punishment, just a, not alarming call home.

The best parts, My son feels bad about hitting the bully, but says he would do it again because the bully was "too wrong." Even better, why did he use a head butt? Because the no-touching-other-students rule is most often expressed as "No Hands."
Infovoyeur • Mar 15, 2011 @2:49 pm

Well like Orwell said in 1894 Newspeak, up is down, good is bad, etc. See the pendulum of social fashion swunnggggg much toooooo far toward Civility etc. that absurdly the victim is the victim of his own defense. Yaweh help us, if our military and country defendents think that way…
marco73 • Mar 15, 2011 @2:56 pm

So one kid is starting to whup the big kid against the wall, and the bully's buddies are watching his back? So when do the authorities believe that the big kid has the right to defend himself against a gang? After the first punch, the first lost tooth, broken bone, in the ambulance?
Yeah, I've been that big kid up against the wall, outnumbered, who's only options were to fight back or get his ass continually kicked. I had to smack down one bully in middle school and one in high school.
Fight back, then go ahead and serve the suspension. Big friggin deal.
The kids will ignore the stupid adults, and big kid will have some serious respect when he gets back.
Scott Jacobs • Mar 15, 2011 @3:01 pm

Misk, his reason for why the head-butt makes that story utterly awesome.

Did he follow the "no hands" rule because he wanted to be breaking as few of rules as possible?
Aashish • Mar 15, 2011 @3:02 pm

Yeah, I grew up in a pretty racist town, and I'll never remember when I went to the school guidance counselor for help.

"You sure it was HIM?! I know his parents!"

Best thing I ever learned as a kid was "Don't take shit, give it"
Ken • Mar 15, 2011 @3:05 pm

Violence does, in fact, solve problems.

Unfortunately, in the real world, violence often does not solve problems for kids who are bullied. First, in the real world, retaliatory violence often leads to an uncinematic beatdown for the rebelling bullied kid. Second, grown-ups (because of the very cultural idiocy Patrick portrays) often shift from indifference to hostility. Third, as Patrick also implies, casual violence by bullies is portrayed as a necessary part of everyday life, but retaliatory or defensive violence by the bullied is portrayed as disordered, a behavioral problem, the first step towards a school shooting.

Still. Better to be a dead lion than a live dog. So I support striking back. Bullies are vermin.
Scott Jacobs • Mar 15, 2011 @3:07 pm

A friend of my mom's had a kid get suspended for fighting in school. It was self defense, the SCHOOL said it was self defense, but the kid was still getting suspended.

The father goes to talk to the principle who explains the rules about how everyone involved in the fight gets punished. The father, so I am told (and my mother had no reason to lie about this), shot forward, grabbed the principle by the tie, pulled him forward and said "So if I slammed my fist into you face right now, we'd both go to jail?"

He lets go, and sits back down. "Fine. My kid will serve the suspension, and I will make sure that he understand that he is to never, ever defend himself on school property ever again. If he ever gets injured because of that, I will sue you, every teacher in the building at the time, and the district for every penny you could ever hope to earn in your life."

The father then stood up, and left the building.

Later they got a call saying the son was not, in fact, suspended, and could return to school the next day. The dad called him in sick, and they went fishing.
MadRocketScientist • Mar 15, 2011 @3:43 pm

I was bullied as a kid as well (I didn't hit my growth spurt until about 15, so it was beat on the little science geek at will). I put a stop to it when I was 13 after a group started making a regular run on me as I rode my bike home from school. Having a heavy 6 foot chain (my 'bike lock') on hand made the 4-1 odds a little bit nicer, and me screaming like a maniac while giving chase to them helped drive the point home.

I had to face down a few other bullies after that, but most of them, once you stare them in the eye & let them know that you will be doing your best to hand out a medium set of lumps, they back off.

However, the retaliatory violence bit, it's not an empty concern. I carried a weapon on me every day after that (usually a medium weight length of chain I could use to create a healthy buffer zone in case I got ganged up on again).
dad of many • Mar 15, 2011 @5:24 pm

In ~10th grade, I was a meek, quiet, excellent student who carefully avoided trouble, etc. Obviously, there were several teams of (small, skinny) bullies who got their jollies taking advantage of that at various times.

I was also a 220-lb defensive tackle who could bench and squat with the best of them – and hit HARD. One day in PE, we were doing rec-style soccer. One of the bullies was clumsily dribbling the ball down the field and was on the other team. Didn't even aim for the ball – put my leg through his just below the knee. Down and out for however many weeks it took to knit together.

Not only did it fix his bullying problem, but all his friends became a lot nicer, too. The coach's response was "OK, that's enough." For bullies, violence really is the answer.
melonmoney • Mar 15, 2011 @5:37 pm

A quote from a dubious source is appropriate here:

"There are those that understand the language of violence and those that understand the language of reason. Know both and always make your self understood"

The Devil's Apocrypha: John A. De Vito
SPQR • Mar 15, 2011 @5:58 pm

We've allowed the education of our children to be taken over by a group of people least qualified to do the job – heck, unqualified to run a hot dog stand – because of a lack of common sense, an "Education" profession curriculum filled with socialist inspired horse manure, and an acceptance, even celebration, of incompetence.

We are going to be very much sorry for the result.
Shylock Holmes • Mar 15, 2011 @6:03 pm

The only thing that could have made that video more awesome would have been if, when Johnny McTurd was lying on the ground, the fat kid started yelling at him "Do you see what happens? Do you see what happens, Larry?".

Given you're getting suspended anyway, you may as well own it.

@Scott Jacobs – that is a radical story. If I ever have kids, I'm going to make sure I remember that line.
Lorenzo from Oz • Mar 15, 2011 @6:29 pm

Agreed entirely. Spelling point: Sydney (a city of 4.5m people) is named after Lord Sydney, a British Home Secretary, and is spelt without an 'i'.
Patrick • Mar 15, 2011 @6:33 pm

Noted.
MadRocketScientist • Mar 15, 2011 @6:34 pm

Shylock FTW! Too bad kids rarely have the presence of mind after a fight to be talking smack after the smackdown (too much adrenaline, not enough experience dealing with its effects)
Scott Jacobs • Mar 15, 2011 @7:01 pm

I think kicking the kid to punctuate the lines "You wanna hit me now? YOU WANNA HIT ME NOW???" would have driven the message home.

For some bullies, it isn't enough to beat them – they just get their dander up and feel the need to come back worse than before. You have to make them shudder if they even THINK of trying it again. It also adds something for their friends to think about.

Sometimes it isn't enough to win, you have to run up the score.
D103 • Mar 15, 2011 @7:15 pm

@ Scott Jacobs….
Excellent story, thanks for posting it. I really want to meet that father.
Will • Mar 15, 2011 @7:22 pm

Teachers / school staff will do fuck all about bullying, so good on the kid for laying the beat down.
gator • Mar 15, 2011 @7:31 pm

Fight back and take the suspension. Five years from now, the suspension won't mean a damned thing. The fact that you stood up for yourself and refused to be a victim most certainly will.
Chris Berez • Mar 15, 2011 @7:56 pm

Well said, Patrick. Well said.
E.Z. • Mar 15, 2011 @8:07 pm

That was awesome. I started clapping.

Someone should turn that video into an anti-bullying PSA:

"Leave the fat kids alone – or YOU might become the little limping pussy we all make fun of on the Internet"
Scott Jacobs • Mar 15, 2011 @9:10 pm

@D103 – She told me that story back when I was in High School (32 now) after *I* got suspended for defending myself (I was "allowed" to come back after 3, instead of the full 10-day).

I've since asked several times who it was whose kid it was, and she flat out REFUSES to tell me.

I suspect because I'd want to buy him a beer for being awesome.
Vice Magnet • Mar 15, 2011 @9:13 pm

Pay you back with interest! That was sweet. I remember being bullied in 7th grade and the new kid comes in and tries to get in on the act. Most of the guys who signed my yearbook mentioned "look out for that left hook" because in one punch I knocked the guy out, and he was about 5" taller than me.
Base of the Pillar • Mar 15, 2011 @10:38 pm

Hell yes I cheered for the big guy. How fricking out of touch must "experts" be to fail to acknowledge the justice in this? Schools are truly being run by the inmates.
David • Mar 15, 2011 @10:44 pm

Everything is kung fu.
Base of the Pillar • Mar 15, 2011 @11:25 pm

I want you to be nice… until it's time to not be nice.
Danimal • Mar 16, 2011 @5:25 am

People who say that "violence is never the answer" usually end up getting their asses kicked by someone who doesn't
marco73 • Mar 16, 2011 @6:22 am

Sometimes the bullies just need to know that someone has another kid's back.
We are hosting a foreign high school student. His first couple days at school last year, a couple kids were testing out the foreign students, to see who they could continue to harass. They'd knock books on the floor, try to trip them in the halls, just escalating to test the limits.
My son is a lineman on the football team, and on the Friday of their first game, the team gets to wear their jerseys to school. My son and a couple other players saw one of the bullies kick some of the foreign student's backpacks down the hall, including the backpack of our student.
My son grabbed the ring leader, and held him up to a locker, feet dangling off the floor. He said that if they ever touched one of the students, that the TEAM would take care of business.
Needless to say, the foreign students haven't had any more problems this year, and are enjoying their time here.
Mannie • Mar 16, 2011 @6:32 am

“We don’t believe that violence is ever the answer,” [seasoned bullying expert John] Dalgleish says. “We believe there are other ways that children can manage this.” …

Criminal morons like this so-called expert are the cause of much of school violence. Volence is ALWAYS the answer against violent people, whether you apply it yourself or subcontract it out to teachers or cops. The little twerp got what he deserved. The principal should be fired for promoting child abuse and put on a list. The superintendant who failed to fire him should be fired for cause. The teachers should have their pay cut. The school board should be doused in boiling tar, covered with feathers, and run out of town on a fencerail. The kid should be praised in front of the school assembly.

I hope the family of the fat kid sues the pants off the school district.
ParatrooperJJ • Mar 16, 2011 @7:20 am

The only thing bullies respect is force.
trinlayk • Mar 16, 2011 @9:49 am

DD was in kindergarden, taking the bus to & from day care (because I had to work) to school…

every afternoon on the way home this 2nd grade boy was harassing her, pulling her braids, pinching her, pulling on her clothes… she'd be bruised and in tears.

We even had to track down her backpack at the day care HE got off the bus at, since he'd stolen it.

Multiple calls to the school, "Do you know his last name?" (No but how many 2nd graders do you have named "Larry"?) or "well, it happened on the BUS we really can't do ANYTHING…."

So she got minimal martial arts training from me, (hit his nose, like THIS, he will notice and leave you alone…) PLUS, You cannot hit him unless he is hurting you… You cannot hit him unless you have told him to stop. You cannot hit him unless you have WARNED him… THEN you may clean his clock.

after maybe 10+ calls I'd made where NOTHING happened. the ONLY time she defended herself resulted in a meeting in the principals office with HIS mother… who had NO idea her boy had been harassing my daughter. And the Principal had no record or idea that I'd previously been calling them.

There were no suspensions, but he never EVER harassed either her or any other girl on the bus while we were in that school district.
bw • Mar 16, 2011 @9:59 am

"First, in the real world, retaliatory violence often leads to an uncinematic beatdown for the rebelling bullied kid. "

No one said fighting back shouldn't be preceded by a sober tactical assessment of the situation. In the video, the kid did the exact right thing – he put the punk down quickly and decisively – the pack will back off if the leader is so readily and decisively defeated.
bill • Mar 16, 2011 @11:30 am

Ender Wiggins: "Knocking him down won the first fight. I wanted to win all the next ones, too. So they'd leave me alone."
PLW • Mar 16, 2011 @12:42 pm

This post really brought out the internet tough guy in everyone. I totally would have kicked that 12-year-old's ass!
Patrick • Mar 16, 2011 @1:23 pm

No one's suggested that the kid's ass should have been kicked by an adult, sir.

Something tells me that you just learned the term "internet tough guy" and you've been jonesing to use it all week. Welcome to 2005.
PLW • Mar 16, 2011 @1:45 pm

Your right. Surely no one on the modern internet would overstate their prowess, their children's prowess, or how tough they were in standing up to bullies in their youth.
Patrick • Mar 16, 2011 @1:54 pm

Just as surely as no modern adult would vent childhood frustrations, engendered by years of being a victim, to satisfy himself that now, finally, he can be a tough guy by dumping all over every internet comment thread he reads.
perlhaqr • Mar 16, 2011 @2:30 pm

Ayup. I cheered for the fat kid.

I was taught that "violence is wrong", so I never did what he did, unfortunately. I tried telling my teachers that I was being harassed and abused, and got "What do you expect, haole?" from them. (This was Hawaii, of course.) So I pretty quickly learned not to bother with that. I spent a lot of time in the library. The librarian would at least yell at them for making too much noise, even if she didn't actually care about me.

I eventually realised that was bullshit and take martial arts classes now.
rmv • Mar 16, 2011 @2:37 pm

I agree with the general sentiment, but you know what would happen if people started to allow kids to defend themselves, right?

There would be that one case of it escalating to the point of someone dying.
There are millions of kids being bullied.
Without a doubt, it would happen.

Media shit storm followed by reinstatement of zero tolerance.
Ken • Mar 16, 2011 @3:15 pm

The bully's mommy thinks you all are very mean.
Scott Jacobs • Mar 16, 2011 @3:20 pm

@Ken

""We don't need this posted everywhere," she said. "I would like him to apologise.""

Yeah? Well, we'd like for your kid to not be such a worthless little fuck-stain. You take care of that, and we'll talk.
Patrick • Mar 16, 2011 @3:20 pm

"I was actually shocked because I always brought my three children up to walk away from fights," she said.

FAIL!
Scott Jacobs • Mar 16, 2011 @3:27 pm

Wait a second… Does she not realize that it wasn't the fat kid that posted the video? That it was her son's friend(s) that posted it? That the fat's kid's only involvement with the video is showing the world what your son is like, and how one should – idealy – deal with the problem of bullying, that being someone (preferably the victim) beats the crap out of them?
Robert • Mar 16, 2011 @5:50 pm

Well, we’d like for your kid to not be such a worthless little fuck-stain.

And that raises a good meta-point! For some reason, our society presupposes that kids are all "good" and "innocent". The truth is they're rotten and mean, and deserve no special treatment or consideration.

I was assaulted by a 17-year-old in Sunnyvale CA. He confessed to the Police after he was caught. (He had thrown an object at me from his car; just a random act of violence). The police tried to talk me out of "pressing charges" I was unable to get the DA interested in prosecuting this. I was told "He'll just turn 18 in 6 months and his record would be cleared."
Linus • Mar 16, 2011 @5:56 pm

The emotional mother of Ritchard Gale, Tina, told the Seven Network last night that she and her family have been victimised by the footage, which has spread worldwide. She also demanded an apology from the victim.

Well, now we know why he's a bully. He's been rebelling against that rogue "t" his whole life.

So, the mother of the bully feels "victimised"? How has she been made a victim? I don't know her. I don't care what an asshat her son is, I don't know him either. What does "worldwide" have to do with it?

And how exactly would she like the victim to phrase his apology? "I'm sorry, ma'am, that I kept moving my jaw into the path of your son's fist?" "I'm sorry, ma'am that I didn't use my superpowers to stop your asshat-son's friends from posting this video"? "I'm sorry that I didn't just shut up and take it, ma'am, SO THAT I COULD SPARE YOU A LITTLE TEMPORARY FUCKING EMBARRASSMENT." Gosh, I am just puzzled as to how her son became such a self-centered jerk.
Marc J. Randazza • Mar 16, 2011 @7:17 pm

Wouldn't it be wonderful if our anti-bullying PSAs all said "if you get bullied, fuck the bully up!"

That would make Parry Aftab pretty useless pretty damn quick. Oh wait… well, it would be wonderful.
Scott Jacobs • Mar 16, 2011 @7:22 pm

"Well, now we know why he’s a bully. He’s been rebelling against that rogue “t” his whole life. "

Don't name a young boy Ritchard, he'll grow up mean…
Michael • Mar 16, 2011 @7:39 pm

Teaching your kids to walk away from fights when possible is good. Teaching your kids to let others bully them around and make every day at school miserable is not.

The only way to deal with a bully is to stand up to him. It's obvious that this wasn't the first time the fat kid was bullied (I wonder if there are videos from other days where he just took it and let them push him around). Telling the adults doesn't work – every kid knows this. Probably every teacher in whole school knew the big kid was getting bullied, and did nothing to stop it. That's why the little punks didn't think anything of videotaping them bullying him. There had never been consequences before, there wouldn't be any this time either.

Most bullies are cowards – they'll only pick on those who they know won't fight back. Where were the little guy's friends when the big kid slammed him down? Did they step in to get his back? Nope, because they're cowards, and all of a sudden the big kid is fighting back, and they never counted on that. If the big kids wanted, he could have wailed on the bully until an adult arrived to pry them apart, and no one would have intervened. He showed some pretty admirable restraint in walking away at the point he did
Shylock Holmes • Mar 16, 2011 @9:33 pm

"The shocking footage was viewed on thetelegraph.com.au four times more than the devastation that has struck Japan."

Man, that's human nature right there.
CTrees • Mar 17, 2011 @5:40 am

@Shylock: This footage is a wonderful tale of victory. Something to be proud of. The footage of the devastation in Japan is horrible, and it's understandable that people wouldn't want to see it.
Patrick • Mar 17, 2011 @6:42 am

The truth is, You're the Weak. And I'm the Tyranny of Evil Men.

But I'm trying, Ringo, I'm trying real hard, to be the Shepherd.

"One in four young people in schools across Australia are bullied every week," adolescent psychologist Michael Carr-Gregg points out.

The estimate seems extreme, but if one in four Australian children get bullied on a weekly basis, the Australian government has no business running schools. And Michael Carr-Gregg and his fellow Australian bullying "experts" are utter failures.

"There are better ways of dealing with [bullying]," he suggests, saying "walking away would have been an option."

The kid had been walking away for three years! Evidently the solution for violence in Australian schools is for the victims to emulate Gandhi and Jesus Christ.

But even Jesus attacked the money-changers.

"Violence begets violence," Mr Carr-Gregg believes, "[and] when violence does occur it escalates and kids then see violence as a problem solving device, which ultimately it isn't."

If the fat kid had had a shepherd, he wouldn't have had to fight the tyranny of evil men. Where was Michael Carr-Gregg when the fat kid needed him?
Ken • Mar 17, 2011 @8:46 am

Earlier article about bully's mom was mistaken in part.
Patrick • Mar 17, 2011 @8:47 am

That's one HELL of a mistake.
CTrees • Mar 17, 2011 @9:04 am

That really is a pretty extreme mistake.

Also, just noticed this line: "Students said violence was a daily occurrence with fights often filmed and posted online."

Um.

Videos, huh?

Why are these kids not being arrested!?!
Aashish • Mar 17, 2011 @9:37 am

CTrees, I'm not sure if the solution is to be putting the little jerks in jail and the criminal system. All that would do is turn small time bullies into hardcore bullies
PLW • Mar 17, 2011 @9:50 am

I'm with Aashish- If the first disciplinary step is prison, you're doing something wrong. Kids to push rules unless you correct them. Maybe they have been consistently punished so far, without changing their behavior, but I doubt it.
Scott Jacobs • Mar 17, 2011 @10:01 am

"If the first disciplinary step is prison, you’re doing something wrong."

PLW is right…

We all know the first step is beatings with a sack of oranges…
Aashish • Mar 17, 2011 @10:03 am

My parents came from the third world. Tell you what, you don't misbehave when there's a REAL punishment waiting at home…
Daniel B • Mar 17, 2011 @10:29 am

The day I swung back at my bully (or rather, his nards) was the day he stopped pushing me around in the hall. And later became a friend.
CTrees • Mar 17, 2011 @11:14 am

My comment was in relation to that one quote, from the linked story with the retraction. If it's common knowledge that there's notable violence every day between students, and if, apparently, a lot video of this has been posted online, we're not talking about first time offenses – we're talking about incontrovertable truth of repeated violence. Normal disciplinary action should have started at, at minimum, the first offenses that were caught on tape (no way of arguing "well I didn't see it happen," etc.), and then if it's being repeated that often, arrests would indeed be appropriate.

Now, bringing back a good caning for first time offenses? I'm SO for that.
Bob • Mar 17, 2011 @11:38 am

"There are better ways of dealing with [bullying]," he suggests, saying "walking away would have been an option."

I always loved that one when I was a kid. 'cuz once I start walking away, he has to ignore me.
mojo • Mar 17, 2011 @12:20 pm

"A lesson on manners punctuated with a punch in the nose tends to stick with you."
Mannie • Mar 17, 2011 @12:58 pm

rmv • Mar 16, 2011 @2:37 pm
I agree with the general sentiment, but you know what would happen if people started to allow kids to defend themselves, right?

There would be that one case of it escalating to the point of someone dying.

That is already happening, but it's the bullied vicrtims that are dying. I don't mind a dead aggressor or two, as long as no one is hurt.
MadRocketScientist • Mar 17, 2011 @1:45 pm

Or you get the victims coming to school with trench coats full of guns and a gallon of haterade for their classmates
rmv • Mar 17, 2011 @2:02 pm

I wasn't making a normative statement. I was just laying out what I thought to be the logical sequence of events if the bullied fought back. Zero tolerance would be reinstated in a heartbeat.

In the end, they'd still get the shit end of the stick.
Base of the Pillar • Mar 17, 2011 @4:47 pm

"…he also laments bystanders to such incidents filming than rather than intervening."

How can a human adult be so goddamn stupid? It wasn't just some random bystanders taping the bullying. It was Grover Dill taping Farkus' nasty habit. Intervening for him would have been coldcocking Casey in the back of the head.

Does psychology not address the real world or something?
Walt • Mar 18, 2011 @1:32 pm

Number one reason there is bullying in school is school. Take a bunch of kids the same age, trap them somewhere they don't want to be and they'll find their own pecking order.
Those same kids in a more natural mixed age setting behave very differently.
Deoxy • Mar 18, 2011 @2:04 pm

“We don’t believe that violence is ever the answer”

Thanks for telling me – now I know. "And knowing is half the battle." Of course, the OTHER half of the battle is… violence.

Seriously, violence usually IS the proper response to violence. In fact, really, it's the ONLY response – if there is no credible threat of violence in response, someone willing to be violent completely and totally rules over the non-violence. Forever.

That that threat of violence is usually farmed out to the police does not remove it. In fact, they are applying the threat of violence to the poor fat kid RIGHT NOW – what happens if he ignores his suspension and comes back to campus? They order him to leave. If he also ignores that, at some point, the police must come and physically (and in "using violence") remove him. That is where authority comes from.
Chrissy • Mar 18, 2011 @7:12 pm

My daughter has flash backs, panic attacks, was suicidal and is home schooled over having years of bullying done to her. She has Aspergers syndrome and was not able to fully voice what was happening until she was suicidal and refusing to go to school at 10 (thats right TEN) years old. Shes had years of therapy and still has flash backs and moments of such acute panic it hurts to watch. So you know what, these people who say dialog havent been in my kids shoes.She took the non violent dont give them attention route and this is what happened to her. I got assaulted for standing up to one of them.But since she is a minor, the fact that she ripped my ear away from my scalp isnt aggravated assault. The fact that she jacked me out of my own front door isnt a big deal to them (kids will be kids).The fact that this is a recurrent problem that the State Police have been called to take care of for years doesnt mean a thing. I keep a bat at my door now. I will not allow my child to be assaulted again and I will not be assaulted again. I will take someone down with me if that happens again. We are moving ASAP so she can actually go out in the sunshine of her own yard, or maybe go back to public school, or walk to the corner store with her dog.

Dialogging doesnt work after a time. Stop telling our children to be walking talking feeling breathing experiments in human sociology for an experiment that is FAILING. It does NOT work.
Andrew • Mar 18, 2011 @8:10 pm

@ Walt

I agree. Compulsory, standardized, classroom-based government schools funded by money extracted from property owners are at least half the problem, infected as they are to the core with collectivism, misandry, feminist ideology, statist indoctrination, academic mediocrity, obsession with equal outcomes, denial of racial differences, top-heavy administration, and, far too often, just plain bureaucratic idiocy.