I Hand The Cashier A Ten Dollar Bill For A Five Dollar Purchase. She Gives Me Fifteen Dollars In Change.

Politics & Current Events

What should I do?  Should I call attention to her error and hand back ten dollars, or should I pocket the money and get out of the store?

I'll be honest, at various times in my life, I've done both.  On the one hand, we have the thrill of getting ten dollars! Beating the man!  And perhaps a gnawing guilt…

On the other, if we give the money back, we have the feeling, "I've been a sucker."  And the pain of losing ten dollars.  But no guilt – we did the right thing.  Perhaps even a small satisfaction for having done so.  I know which of these two courses I'd rather follow the next time someone gives me too much change.

Fortunately the government hasn't the slightest bit of conscience.  It keeps the money.  As soon as it leaves the store, it laughs at the cashier:

The N.C. Department of Revenue is sifting through a backlog of 230,000 unresolved tax returns from as far back as 1994 that include cases in which taxpayers are owed money – but are now unlikely to get it.

E-mail correspondence obtained by The News & Observer outlined the problem, and it revealed a debate within the department over how to deal with longstanding cases where its computer system flagged returns to indicate taxpayers who mistakenly overpaid their taxes.

The e-mail messages also show that the department knew about overpayments but did not refund them.

Although some of the overpaid returns are old, most are brand new.  Before 2009, policy at the North Carolina Department of Revenue was, whenever a taxpayer was marked by a computer as having overpaid his taxes, the money was returned.

Since 2009, the taxman has a more realistic policy:  When a taxpayer overpays, the Department will stay silent, saying nothing.  If the taxpayer realizes his error within three years (as required by statute), the Department will, maybe, grudgingly refund the money.  Otherwise, the Department will spend the money on no-bid construction contracts, and laugh at how it put one over on the citizen.

Of course this only works in one direction:  A citizen who inadvertently stiffs the North Carolina Department of Revenue will be forced to pay a penalty, may have his name tarnished as a tax cheat, and could get to enjoy an audit or worse.  If not paid back immediately, the Revenue Department will react with the fury of the wounded innocent at being cheated of its rightful gains.

All of which may be perfectly legal, but is it right?  That's the question I'm here to pose:  We teach our children to obey the government because, by and large, its laws are just.  Because the government is disinterested in commerce, and has no profit motive, we teach our children that the government is more likely to be honest than some shopkeeper.

But if the government is just another shark in the marketplace, if the government just follows the law of the jungle, shouldn't we teach children to obey the government out of fear, and for no other reason?  Unless of course, they can get away with it?  That doing the right thing is for suckers and sheep, if you're smart enough?

That's certainly the lesson that the North Carolina Department of Revenue is teaching their parents.

Last 5 posts by Patrick

26 Comments

24 Comments

  1. Ian Argent  •  Aug 16, 2010 @5:13 pm

    That's a great way to teach respect for the government

  2. aczarnowski  •  Aug 16, 2010 @6:24 pm

    I was going to try and come up with something pithy, but after my last interaction with glassy eyed overreachers all I can say is:

    Fuck. Government.

  3. Brian Dunbar  •  Aug 16, 2010 @8:39 pm

    I am so tired of paying money to be treated like crap by the government.

    What aczarnowki said: Fuck. Government.

  4. Vice Magnet  •  Aug 16, 2010 @9:06 pm

    I wonder how many other states share the moral compass of the State of North Carolina?

  5. Ariel  •  Aug 16, 2010 @9:11 pm

    If it's not your money you give it back, period. State or Person, you give it back. No question of guilt or sucker, no reason to think one way or the other, you give it back. It isn't yours.

  6. Pine_Tree  •  Aug 17, 2010 @5:40 am

    You wrote: "We teach our children to obey the government because, by and large, its laws are just. Because the government is disinterested in commerce, and has no profit motive, we teach our children that the government is more likely to be honest than some shopkeeper."

    Not all of us. Some of us teach them that all confiscatory taxation is theft. The government's policies/practices in this case are all entirely coherent. A lot of paradoxes go away when you reach the truth.

  7. Andrew  •  Aug 17, 2010 @7:06 am

    Not all states take this approach. I have to give credit to New York State's taxation department, which several years ago sent me a letter telling me that I had overpaid, and how to get my money back.

  8. Richard Hershberger  •  Aug 17, 2010 @7:14 am

    I know you have your point of view, but pushing a complaint about what "the government" does, only to have it turn out to be a policy of the North Carolina Department of Revenue since 2009 makes the argument unpersuasive.

  9. piperTom  •  Aug 17, 2010 @7:15 am

    Ariel is treading dangerous ground. If the same moral principles apply to a group calling itself Government and to individuals, there are many consequences. Start with this one: why is not paying a "debt" to government a crime while not paying a debt to a neighbor a civil matter?

    Pine_Tree knows the answer.

  10. Patrick  •  Aug 17, 2010 @7:22 am

    Richard, if you're so freaking blind that you can't take that context, I can't help you. No one can help you.

  11. MadRocketScientist  •  Aug 17, 2010 @7:39 am

    The question isn't, what do we teach our kids about the honesty & righteousness of government? It's, this is why we value liberty over security, because those who are given power (to provide for security) will find a way to abuse it, and keep gaining more power.

  12. Imaginary Lawyer  •  Aug 17, 2010 @8:02 am

    Patrick – this isn't being presented as one more goddamn example of what the government does to us?

    The interesting thing about this story is that, having been caught (and the Governor of the state is understandably pissed if for no other reason than approval ratings), the revenue department is now saying they need a million dollars in funding to be able to fix the mistakes.

  13. MadRocketScientist  •  Aug 17, 2010 @8:07 am
  14. Patrick  •  Aug 17, 2010 @8:11 am

    Patrick – this isn’t being presented as one more goddamn example of what the government does to us?

    Imaginary Lawyer, I expect that readers like you, whom I take to be an actual attorney, and Rick, whom I don't know, will comprehend that that when I refer to "government" here, I am referring specifically to the North Carolina Department of Revenue, an entity which holds taxing authority over nine million Americans, but that I am also attempting to make a larger point, in context.

    Yes, I expect people who chance upon this site to read between the lines. Perhaps I give readers too much credit, but in general I think they're sharp enough. For instance, I think you're sharp enough to understand that. I give you that much credit.

    In preparing these posts, I use shorthand, from time to time, such as referring to a specific subpart of one sovereign entity making up the federal republic that is the United States, as "government," in part to save my time and wrists, but also to illustrate specific problems as symptomatic of a larger, overall problem within that federal republic.

    If you want to read a literal, absolutely correct blog, which always refers to entities by their proper names, never makes intuitive leaps, and doesn't assume facts not in evidence based on its authors experiences and philosophical inclinations, I'm afraid you'll have to read elsewhere.

  15. slambie  •  Aug 17, 2010 @12:59 pm

    I have no idea how the state of Oregon (where I live) operates when it comes to overpays, but it appears that the IRS (or maybe just some of their employees) will step-up and return money owed. I got a letter and a check from them this year informing me that I failed to take advantage of a new tax credit – I was amazed that they would even bother. The funny thing is, while checking the credit I missed, I found a mistake to my benefit and ended up filing an amended return for an additional few hundred – sent to me with interest added.

    Of course, who knows, maybe I'm on "the list" now and will be subjected to a decade of excruciating audits and made to suffer accordingly – just for balance.

  16. Patrick  •  Aug 17, 2010 @1:45 pm

    That's exactly how things should work slambie. For what it's worth North Carolina used to do the same thing. I recall getting a "you made a mistake – here's 25 dollars" letter in 2006.

    I suspect we'll see more of this as the depression continues.

  17. PLW  •  Aug 17, 2010 @2:17 pm

    I can't quite remember that last time that happened to me, but I'm sure the little card was either yellow or orange, and I was probably the top hat.

  18. Patrick  •  Aug 17, 2010 @2:23 pm

    You mean this?

  19. Ian Argent  •  Aug 17, 2010 @2:37 pm

    While I was in college one year, I more or less forgot to file (I ended up being OK since I made well under the threshold). I got a federal refund anyway. (My state didn't get the memo though and eventually came after me for back taxes. I had no way of proving it at that point and it was a small enough amount not to matter).

  20. Imaginary Lawyer  •  Aug 17, 2010 @6:42 pm

    Patrick, you flatterer, you.

  21. eddie  •  Aug 18, 2010 @3:12 pm

    Today the cashier at the drive-through gave me back eight dollars for a ten and a $1.05 burger. I said, eyebrows raised curiously but good-naturedly, "ninety-five cents?" She answered forthrightly "I gave you nine dollars."

    I, automatically and politely deferring to an authority figure, said "Oh, okay" and drove off, even while a little voice in the back of my head was screaming "NO SHE DIDN'T! SHE ONLY GAVE YOU EIGHT! YOU JUST NOW COUNTED IT YOURSELF FOR GOD'S SAKE, YOU BLITHERING IDIOT!!" and the voice in the front of my head was replying "Oh, sure, I know, you're right, but she seemed so confident, and I already agreed with her, and it's not like I'm going to stop the car and go back now, anyway." Needless to say, when I later checked, I verified that in fact she had only given me eight dollars.

    The fact that I'm out ninety-five cents doesn't bother me nearly as much as the fact that there was some trivial injustice done to me which I effectively have no way to make right. It's not the monetary loss… it's the cosmic imbalance, the tiny little thing left undone, the itch in the middle of your back that you just can't scratch.

    So, in an effort to get the monkey off my back, I hereby grant you full right and title to my claim of $0.95 against The Vast Legion Of Error-Prone Retail Clerks. You can use it to partially offset the guilt you feel for the last time you pocketed the extra ten bucks they gave you.

  22. Matt Raft  •  Aug 19, 2010 @9:49 am

    Eddie, your comment made my day. Retail clerks can't seem to do basic math these days, leaving us with the no-win decision to be an a-hole and point out the mistake or walk away.

    Oh, and you really don't want to know the number of times I've protested being charged sales tax on cold to-go items. Sigh.

  23. Xmas  •  Sep 4, 2010 @7:11 am

    You should see what's going on in Brockton, MA:

    http://www.wickedlocal.com/brockton/news/x640787766/Brockton-s-high-water-bills-spur-grassroots-movement

    $100,000 water bill because the town was misreading the meters for 10 years…

  24. WhiskeyJim  •  Sep 4, 2010 @11:55 pm

    It appears beyond coincidental that you post this policy now.

    For this policy is exactly the psychological issue with large government bail-outs to elites. It appears that over the years our governing class has gotten too smart by half.

    We can argue for man years about bailing out Wall Street. But it is the psychological damage that it does to a nation that is the real concern. Economists especially (perhaps because they are mostly employed by governments) seem to forget that most people in this country live in free markets in small businesses where the quality of their work and their word are the only thing that keeps them employed and wins them new work.

    If those people, working the longest hours with their personal reputations on the line, finally perceive that the system is broken slanted against them, then the resultant corruption and general malaise will destroy the fabric of society.

    And there are any number of signals that that is exactly what is beginning to occur.

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