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	<title>Comments on: Why I Oppose President Obama Speaking to the Nation&#039;s Schoolchildren</title>
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	<link>http://www.popehat.com/2009/09/06/why-i-oppose-president-obama-speaking-to-the-nations-schoolchildren/</link>
	<description>A Group Complaint about Law, Liberty, and Leisure</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2012 22:39:39 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Ethics Carnage in Wisconsin: The Ethics Grades So Far &#124; Ethics Alarms</title>
		<link>http://www.popehat.com/2009/09/06/why-i-oppose-president-obama-speaking-to-the-nations-schoolchildren/comment-page-1/#comment-315184</link>
		<dc:creator>Ethics Carnage in Wisconsin: The Ethics Grades So Far &#124; Ethics Alarms</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Feb 2011 14:46:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.popehat.com/?p=5951#comment-315184</guid>
		<description>[...] but they blatantly lied to avoid taking responsibility for an illegal job action. Using children as cheap and involuntary political props is dehumanizing and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] but they blatantly lied to avoid taking responsibility for an illegal job action. Using children as cheap and involuntary political props is dehumanizing and [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Carol</title>
		<link>http://www.popehat.com/2009/09/06/why-i-oppose-president-obama-speaking-to-the-nations-schoolchildren/comment-page-1/#comment-42927</link>
		<dc:creator>Carol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 01:52:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.popehat.com/?p=5951#comment-42927</guid>
		<description>My 10 year old saw the speech. She said it was &quot;good&quot; and that &quot;she had heard it all before; grownups are always telling kids to work more and go to school&quot; and made special note that the kids in the audience on TV looked bored.

I asked whether her teacher talked about the speech after wards. Not a word, evidently.

However, today she said the teacher mentioned the speech during math class. I asked her what the teacher said. &quot;Oh, I don&#039;t know. The President wants us to sit still and go to page 12 or something.&quot;

Her one observation that I thought was, if not off the mark, at least exhibiting some out of the box thinking: &quot;Wait. If The President&#039;s mom home schooled him, why is he telling us to stay in school?&quot; A bit of factual information lost in the mix, but I like that she appreciates irony.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My 10 year old saw the speech. She said it was "good" and that "she had heard it all before; grownups are always telling kids to work more and go to school" and made special note that the kids in the audience on TV looked bored.</p>
<p>I asked whether her teacher talked about the speech after wards. Not a word, evidently.</p>
<p>However, today she said the teacher mentioned the speech during math class. I asked her what the teacher said. "Oh, I don't know. The President wants us to sit still and go to page 12 or something."</p>
<p>Her one observation that I thought was, if not off the mark, at least exhibiting some out of the box thinking: "Wait. If The President's mom home schooled him, why is he telling us to stay in school?" A bit of factual information lost in the mix, but I like that she appreciates irony.</p>
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		<title>By: Martha</title>
		<link>http://www.popehat.com/2009/09/06/why-i-oppose-president-obama-speaking-to-the-nations-schoolchildren/comment-page-1/#comment-42852</link>
		<dc:creator>Martha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 20:01:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.popehat.com/?p=5951#comment-42852</guid>
		<description>This is what makes me not worry about the kids. My seven-year-old son saw the speech in class, on which he reported the following without prompting: &quot;The president says we&#039;ll be letting down our nation if we don&#039;t go to school.&quot; But then my guy collapsed into giggles, also reporting that a friend of his ran around the classroom saying the speech was &quot;dumb&quot; because everyone should be free to do whatever they want.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is what makes me not worry about the kids. My seven-year-old son saw the speech in class, on which he reported the following without prompting: "The president says we'll be letting down our nation if we don't go to school." But then my guy collapsed into giggles, also reporting that a friend of his ran around the classroom saying the speech was "dumb" because everyone should be free to do whatever they want.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken</title>
		<link>http://www.popehat.com/2009/09/06/why-i-oppose-president-obama-speaking-to-the-nations-schoolchildren/comment-page-1/#comment-42816</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 16:37:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.popehat.com/?p=5951#comment-42816</guid>
		<description>My eldest, Evan, saw the speech yesterday, per his mother&#039;s specific wishes.

I did my best to give him the talk when I got home -- a variation on my talk about commercials.  (&quot;These people are trying to sell you high-fructose-corn-syrup-covered wheat husks with up to .o1% rat droppings, shaped like ninjas and marketed as cereal.  They are trying to do it by making you think you need it/it will make you happy/you aren&#039;t cool unless you it eat/it will complete you.  Why are they doing it?  Are they telling the truth?  Do they have your best interest in mind?&quot;)   I gave a variation directed at politicians.

Evan seemed interested at first and then increasingly confused.  It&#039;s possible I wandered from the point a bit.  I was still full of Versed and Fentanyl.  Also, I think I was delivering the talk face-down on the couch, which is not optimal for inspiring attentiveness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My eldest, Evan, saw the speech yesterday, per his mother's specific wishes.</p>
<p>I did my best to give him the talk when I got home &#8212; a variation on my talk about commercials.  ("These people are trying to sell you high-fructose-corn-syrup-covered wheat husks with up to .o1% rat droppings, shaped like ninjas and marketed as cereal.  They are trying to do it by making you think you need it/it will make you happy/you aren't cool unless you it eat/it will complete you.  Why are they doing it?  Are they telling the truth?  Do they have your best interest in mind?")   I gave a variation directed at politicians.</p>
<p>Evan seemed interested at first and then increasingly confused.  It's possible I wandered from the point a bit.  I was still full of Versed and Fentanyl.  Also, I think I was delivering the talk face-down on the couch, which is not optimal for inspiring attentiveness.</p>
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		<title>By: astonied</title>
		<link>http://www.popehat.com/2009/09/06/why-i-oppose-president-obama-speaking-to-the-nations-schoolchildren/comment-page-1/#comment-42789</link>
		<dc:creator>astonied</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 07:03:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.popehat.com/?p=5951#comment-42789</guid>
		<description>And where was Bush when the airplanes hit the NY Trade Center?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And where was Bush when the airplanes hit the NY Trade Center?</p>
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		<title>By: Martha</title>
		<link>http://www.popehat.com/2009/09/06/why-i-oppose-president-obama-speaking-to-the-nations-schoolchildren/comment-page-1/#comment-42655</link>
		<dc:creator>Martha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2009 20:14:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.popehat.com/?p=5951#comment-42655</guid>
		<description>So interesting that this view of the speech pushed so many lefty buttons. I, too, found myself surrounded on Facebook and in other venues by buddies spouting the party line--&quot;how *dare* those conservatives criticize something so innocuous as a speech to children by our nation&#039;s leader! for shame!&quot; etc., etc.

As a progressive, it even made me feel a little stealthy, liking Ken&#039;s piece--but I did like it, because it seems to me that the image-making of politicians must always be rigorously analyzed and outted. George Orwell, in his curmudgeonly way, might have been writing the same thing about liberal can-do-no-wrong gods. I do wish that Orwell could have participated in the blogosphere; he would have been a natural.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So interesting that this view of the speech pushed so many lefty buttons. I, too, found myself surrounded on Facebook and in other venues by buddies spouting the party line&#8211;"how *dare* those conservatives criticize something so innocuous as a speech to children by our nation's leader! for shame!" etc., etc.</p>
<p>As a progressive, it even made me feel a little stealthy, liking Ken's piece&#8211;but I did like it, because it seems to me that the image-making of politicians must always be rigorously analyzed and outted. George Orwell, in his curmudgeonly way, might have been writing the same thing about liberal can-do-no-wrong gods. I do wish that Orwell could have participated in the blogosphere; he would have been a natural.</p>
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		<title>By: Grandy</title>
		<link>http://www.popehat.com/2009/09/06/why-i-oppose-president-obama-speaking-to-the-nations-schoolchildren/comment-page-1/#comment-42633</link>
		<dc:creator>Grandy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2009 18:28:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.popehat.com/?p=5951#comment-42633</guid>
		<description>How respected was that line really Squire?  As I read elsewhere, politics crept into all manner of speeches (see: NASA related events).  I&#039;m not saying it creeps into all of them.

Ken, I really enjoyed this piece.  I think it&#039;s an issue worth commenting on and you did it beautifully.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How respected was that line really Squire?  As I read elsewhere, politics crept into all manner of speeches (see: NASA related events).  I'm not saying it creeps into all of them.</p>
<p>Ken, I really enjoyed this piece.  I think it's an issue worth commenting on and you did it beautifully.</p>
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		<title>By: Squire</title>
		<link>http://www.popehat.com/2009/09/06/why-i-oppose-president-obama-speaking-to-the-nations-schoolchildren/comment-page-1/#comment-42631</link>
		<dc:creator>Squire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2009 18:19:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.popehat.com/?p=5951#comment-42631</guid>
		<description>It telling and sad that &quot;a speech by the President is by its nature political&quot; escapes comment thus far. It wasn&#039;t long ago that the line between politics and government was (1) easy to see, (2) respected by both parties, and (3) not approached by the kind of talk a President would make to the nation&#039;s schools.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It telling and sad that "a speech by the President is by its nature political" escapes comment thus far. It wasn't long ago that the line between politics and government was (1) easy to see, (2) respected by both parties, and (3) not approached by the kind of talk a President would make to the nation's schools.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken</title>
		<link>http://www.popehat.com/2009/09/06/why-i-oppose-president-obama-speaking-to-the-nations-schoolchildren/comment-page-1/#comment-42628</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2009 18:11:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.popehat.com/?p=5951#comment-42628</guid>
		<description>By the way, this thread has become a target for vacation rentals spam.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the way, this thread has become a target for vacation rentals spam.</p>
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		<title>By: Carol</title>
		<link>http://www.popehat.com/2009/09/06/why-i-oppose-president-obama-speaking-to-the-nations-schoolchildren/comment-page-1/#comment-42593</link>
		<dc:creator>Carol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2009 15:35:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.popehat.com/?p=5951#comment-42593</guid>
		<description>Actually, I think a personal visit with opportunities for genuine interaction and discussion - and as long as it didn&#039;t become a media event extraordinaire - wouldn&#039;t get as much hoo-ha.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, I think a personal visit with opportunities for genuine interaction and discussion &#8211; and as long as it didn't become a media event extraordinaire &#8211; wouldn't get as much hoo-ha.</p>
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		<title>By: Jdog</title>
		<link>http://www.popehat.com/2009/09/06/why-i-oppose-president-obama-speaking-to-the-nations-schoolchildren/comment-page-1/#comment-42590</link>
		<dc:creator>Jdog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2009 15:27:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.popehat.com/?p=5951#comment-42590</guid>
		<description>I distinctly remember writing this before, but I suspect I remember it wrongly:  very well put, Ken; wish I&#039;d put it that way.

My own kid&#039;s school isn&#039;t going to be doing anything with this; it&#039;s the first day of school here, and they&#039;ve got all this education to get on with.  She&#039;ll certainly sit through as much of the speech as she wants to -- and I&#039;m pretty sure she&#039;s been innoculated against worship of politicians at home.  (Except, maybe, Harry S Truman, our greatest President.  I&#039;m pretty sure that she didn&#039;t learn any skepticism about Truman, our greatest President, from me.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I distinctly remember writing this before, but I suspect I remember it wrongly:  very well put, Ken; wish I'd put it that way.</p>
<p>My own kid's school isn't going to be doing anything with this; it's the first day of school here, and they've got all this education to get on with.  She'll certainly sit through as much of the speech as she wants to &#8212; and I'm pretty sure she's been innoculated against worship of politicians at home.  (Except, maybe, Harry S Truman, our greatest President.  I'm pretty sure that she didn't learn any skepticism about Truman, our greatest President, from me.)</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://www.popehat.com/2009/09/06/why-i-oppose-president-obama-speaking-to-the-nations-schoolchildren/comment-page-1/#comment-42573</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2009 14:35:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.popehat.com/?p=5951#comment-42573</guid>
		<description>From reading this speech, it&#039;s not really a speech written to appeal to K-12.  My daughter is in first grade, and I don&#039;t imagine she will pick up much.  The speech itself really seems geared towards grades 5-12, with a chance that 3rd and 4th grades might get something useful out of it.

Most students would get a lot more value from the President making a personal visit, but imagine how much outrage that would result in.  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From reading this speech, it's not really a speech written to appeal to K-12.  My daughter is in first grade, and I don't imagine she will pick up much.  The speech itself really seems geared towards grades 5-12, with a chance that 3rd and 4th grades might get something useful out of it.</p>
<p>Most students would get a lot more value from the President making a personal visit, but imagine how much outrage that would result in.  <img src='http://www.popehat.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: MikeZ</title>
		<link>http://www.popehat.com/2009/09/06/why-i-oppose-president-obama-speaking-to-the-nations-schoolchildren/comment-page-1/#comment-42562</link>
		<dc:creator>MikeZ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2009 14:03:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.popehat.com/?p=5951#comment-42562</guid>
		<description>Mike D says &quot;We have a citizen-based, representative democracy and I think it’s good for the top Executive to speak to the kids once in a while. Apparently “Once in a while” is about every 10 years or so, on average. If just a few kids get the sense that government is important and has meaning to them personally, it’s worth the 15 minutes. It’s at least as useful as a pep rally, and those seemed to last for hours.&quot;

I would agree that interaction with government is useful.  However as pointed out the targeted age range is so wide, I don&#039;t think any kid is going to be made to feel important by this speach.  My Kindergardener would get MUCH greater value if my town selectmen/fireman/policeman made a personal visit instead of a televised speach.  Ten years from now she would would get some value from the president in a targetted speech for HS students.  A K-12 approach leaves both bored.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike D says "We have a citizen-based, representative democracy and I think it’s good for the top Executive to speak to the kids once in a while. Apparently “Once in a while” is about every 10 years or so, on average. If just a few kids get the sense that government is important and has meaning to them personally, it’s worth the 15 minutes. It’s at least as useful as a pep rally, and those seemed to last for hours."</p>
<p>I would agree that interaction with government is useful.  However as pointed out the targeted age range is so wide, I don't think any kid is going to be made to feel important by this speach.  My Kindergardener would get MUCH greater value if my town selectmen/fireman/policeman made a personal visit instead of a televised speach.  Ten years from now she would would get some value from the president in a targetted speech for HS students.  A K-12 approach leaves both bored.</p>
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		<title>By: Don C</title>
		<link>http://www.popehat.com/2009/09/06/why-i-oppose-president-obama-speaking-to-the-nations-schoolchildren/comment-page-1/#comment-42558</link>
		<dc:creator>Don C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2009 13:50:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.popehat.com/?p=5951#comment-42558</guid>
		<description>From David:


&quot;So yeah– disliking Obama’s speech on ideological grounds makes no sense. If your kid is in a state school, you’re just haggling over the price.&quot;


Best line in here, and it really gets to the heart of the matter on so many things, from dissension about this speech, to the same for health care.  I cannot help but feel that the same level of wailing and gnashing of teeth has never been shown about a president speaking to the school-children, it is just this guy that is president that has so many up in arms.  Of course, the right-wing ideologues are always up in arms about &quot;left-wing&quot; professors in education, too, so there ya go.....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From David:</p>
<p>"So yeah– disliking Obama’s speech on ideological grounds makes no sense. If your kid is in a state school, you’re just haggling over the price."</p>
<p>Best line in here, and it really gets to the heart of the matter on so many things, from dissension about this speech, to the same for health care.  I cannot help but feel that the same level of wailing and gnashing of teeth has never been shown about a president speaking to the school-children, it is just this guy that is president that has so many up in arms.  Of course, the right-wing ideologues are always up in arms about "left-wing" professors in education, too, so there ya go&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: St</title>
		<link>http://www.popehat.com/2009/09/06/why-i-oppose-president-obama-speaking-to-the-nations-schoolchildren/comment-page-1/#comment-42538</link>
		<dc:creator>St</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2009 12:32:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.popehat.com/?p=5951#comment-42538</guid>
		<description>&quot;People should not get excited to see or touch or be looked at or spoken to by any politician.&quot;

Why not?  I mean, Barack Obama&#039;s a pretty important guy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"People should not get excited to see or touch or be looked at or spoken to by any politician."</p>
<p>Why not?  I mean, Barack Obama's a pretty important guy.</p>
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