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	<title>Comments on: Every Time You Play The 1812 Overture, A Woman Is Battered</title>
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	<link>http://www.popehat.com/2009/07/15/every-time-you-play-the-1812-overture-a-woman-is-battered/</link>
	<description>A Group Complaint about Law, Liberty, and Leisure</description>
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		<title>By: Ken</title>
		<link>http://www.popehat.com/2009/07/15/every-time-you-play-the-1812-overture-a-woman-is-battered/comment-page-1/#comment-36504</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 23:47:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.popehat.com/?p=5377#comment-36504</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gl5SIyoD5CE_BFIJL_Bsbp_aL0cgD99J5M104&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Antonovich looses.&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gl5SIyoD5CE_BFIJL_Bsbp_aL0cgD99J5M104" rel="nofollow">Antonovich looses.</a></p>
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		<title>By: Bob</title>
		<link>http://www.popehat.com/2009/07/15/every-time-you-play-the-1812-overture-a-woman-is-battered/comment-page-1/#comment-36385</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 17:42:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.popehat.com/?p=5377#comment-36385</guid>
		<description>Anyone want to guess the source of this particular quote? The answer may surprise you (and may confound Supervisor Antonovich):

&quot;...My attitude to Mendelssohn seems to have changed; certainly not towards him as an artist...for years I have contributed more to his elevation than anyone else. However - let us not forget ourselves too much over this. Jews remain Jews; they take their place at table ten times before it&#039;s the Christian&#039;s turn. The stones we supply to build their temple of fame, they then use to throw at us. So what I&#039;m saying is. moderation in all things. We must act and work for ourselves too. Above all, let us approach ever closer to the beautiful and true in art.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anyone want to guess the source of this particular quote? The answer may surprise you (and may confound Supervisor Antonovich):</p>
<p>"&#8230;My attitude to Mendelssohn seems to have changed; certainly not towards him as an artist&#8230;for years I have contributed more to his elevation than anyone else. However &#8211; let us not forget ourselves too much over this. Jews remain Jews; they take their place at table ten times before it's the Christian's turn. The stones we supply to build their temple of fame, they then use to throw at us. So what I'm saying is. moderation in all things. We must act and work for ourselves too. Above all, let us approach ever closer to the beautiful and true in art."</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy</title>
		<link>http://www.popehat.com/2009/07/15/every-time-you-play-the-1812-overture-a-woman-is-battered/comment-page-1/#comment-36112</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 22:26:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.popehat.com/?p=5377#comment-36112</guid>
		<description>Since the creation of Christianity these tales have been vilified as the root of paganism (a parallel to Satanism).  I would even venture the notion that Wotan was likely the model for Satan.  Why not condemn these stories further by permanently associating them with Hitler and Anti-Semitism.  Its evil anyway right?  Nobody bothers to mention how”good” of a Catholic Hitler was.  With little research, you can see he was one of the best.  Martin Luther was considered an anti-Semite and was German yet you never hear about Hitler’s undying love for Lutheranism or the Reformation.  Why?  

Rings and wizards or whatever records were left after the dark ages, (see Snorri Sturluson) are heavily altered and purged why not purge the purged.

I suppose humanity should worship Jewish fairytales instead…  The torah treats everyone so equally just ask a Palestinian.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since the creation of Christianity these tales have been vilified as the root of paganism (a parallel to Satanism).  I would even venture the notion that Wotan was likely the model for Satan.  Why not condemn these stories further by permanently associating them with Hitler and Anti-Semitism.  Its evil anyway right?  Nobody bothers to mention how”good” of a Catholic Hitler was.  With little research, you can see he was one of the best.  Martin Luther was considered an anti-Semite and was German yet you never hear about Hitler’s undying love for Lutheranism or the Reformation.  Why?  </p>
<p>Rings and wizards or whatever records were left after the dark ages, (see Snorri Sturluson) are heavily altered and purged why not purge the purged.</p>
<p>I suppose humanity should worship Jewish fairytales instead…  The torah treats everyone so equally just ask a Palestinian.</p>
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		<title>By: Meredith</title>
		<link>http://www.popehat.com/2009/07/15/every-time-you-play-the-1812-overture-a-woman-is-battered/comment-page-1/#comment-36043</link>
		<dc:creator>Meredith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 05:56:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.popehat.com/?p=5377#comment-36043</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s compromise - I say we ban Los Angeles County Supervisor Mike Antonovich instead of classical music!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let's compromise &#8211; I say we ban Los Angeles County Supervisor Mike Antonovich instead of classical music!</p>
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		<title>By: Windypundit</title>
		<link>http://www.popehat.com/2009/07/15/every-time-you-play-the-1812-overture-a-woman-is-battered/comment-page-1/#comment-35971</link>
		<dc:creator>Windypundit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 14:03:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.popehat.com/?p=5377#comment-35971</guid>
		<description>You had me going with banning showings of The Nutcracker for the children. That shit was boring! I mean, really, flying reindeer and abominable snowmen are cool, but a nutcracker? WTF???</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You had me going with banning showings of The Nutcracker for the children. That shit was boring! I mean, really, flying reindeer and abominable snowmen are cool, but a nutcracker? WTF???</p>
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		<title>By: PatrickKelley</title>
		<link>http://www.popehat.com/2009/07/15/every-time-you-play-the-1812-overture-a-woman-is-battered/comment-page-1/#comment-35926</link>
		<dc:creator>PatrickKelley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 01:12:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.popehat.com/?p=5377#comment-35926</guid>
		<description>I think I&#039;m going to compose an opera that ends with every politician in the world being boiled in oil.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think I'm going to compose an opera that ends with every politician in the world being boiled in oil.</p>
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		<title>By: tk</title>
		<link>http://www.popehat.com/2009/07/15/every-time-you-play-the-1812-overture-a-woman-is-battered/comment-page-1/#comment-35914</link>
		<dc:creator>tk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 22:25:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.popehat.com/?p=5377#comment-35914</guid>
		<description>and Shakespeare is out on several points, and... 

(Having grown up with the love of  my Polish Jewish grandmother, i would probably suggest she was much more of a Hobbit than a Dwarf. :D  )</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>and Shakespeare is out on several points, and&#8230; </p>
<p>(Having grown up with the love of  my Polish Jewish grandmother, i would probably suggest she was much more of a Hobbit than a Dwarf. <img src='http://www.popehat.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' />   )</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://www.popehat.com/2009/07/15/every-time-you-play-the-1812-overture-a-woman-is-battered/comment-page-1/#comment-35908</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:51:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.popehat.com/?p=5377#comment-35908</guid>
		<description>They paid the police $4 million in overtime to honor the serial pedophile Mike.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They paid the police $4 million in overtime to honor the serial pedophile Mike.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.popehat.com/2009/07/15/every-time-you-play-the-1812-overture-a-woman-is-battered/comment-page-1/#comment-35901</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 20:32:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.popehat.com/?p=5377#comment-35901</guid>
		<description>Didn&#039;t Los Angeles just honor a serial pedophile?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Didn't Los Angeles just honor a serial pedophile?</p>
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		<title>By: Shay</title>
		<link>http://www.popehat.com/2009/07/15/every-time-you-play-the-1812-overture-a-woman-is-battered/comment-page-1/#comment-35893</link>
		<dc:creator>Shay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 19:00:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.popehat.com/?p=5377#comment-35893</guid>
		<description>Cotton Mather is alive and well in LA County.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cotton Mather is alive and well in LA County.</p>
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		<title>By: Linus</title>
		<link>http://www.popehat.com/2009/07/15/every-time-you-play-the-1812-overture-a-woman-is-battered/comment-page-1/#comment-35889</link>
		<dc:creator>Linus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 18:36:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.popehat.com/?p=5377#comment-35889</guid>
		<description>Is anyone being forced to go to the Los Angeles County Ring festival? Anyone with a particular sensitivity to Wagner? 

I totally understand the argument that some people simply cannot listen to certain pieces of music, that it would cause almost physical pain. Hell, there&#039;s a certain Sting song that, every time I hear it, I think of my first college girlfriend and wince, even though that was ages ago, and I&#039;m totally glad I didn&#039;t marry her. 

But, as Ken said, I don&#039;t try to force other people not to play that song.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is anyone being forced to go to the Los Angeles County Ring festival? Anyone with a particular sensitivity to Wagner? </p>
<p>I totally understand the argument that some people simply cannot listen to certain pieces of music, that it would cause almost physical pain. Hell, there's a certain Sting song that, every time I hear it, I think of my first college girlfriend and wince, even though that was ages ago, and I'm totally glad I didn't marry her. </p>
<p>But, as Ken said, I don't try to force other people not to play that song.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken</title>
		<link>http://www.popehat.com/2009/07/15/every-time-you-play-the-1812-overture-a-woman-is-battered/comment-page-1/#comment-35885</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 18:33:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.popehat.com/?p=5377#comment-35885</guid>
		<description>By the way, if Mike Antonovich thinks that Mozart is a racially sensitive substitute for Wagner, he hasn&#039;t &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.aria-database.com/translations/magic_flute.txt&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;paid attention to the libretto of &lt;em&gt;The Magic Flute&lt;/em&gt; recently.&lt;/a&gt;  Consider this aria by Monostatos, an evil henchman of the Queen of the Night, variously referred to as a &quot;Moor&quot;, whose dark skin is frequently referenced, singing about how he can&#039;t have the lovely young Pamina:

MONOSTATOS

All feel the joy of love,
Bill and coo, flirt, snuggle,
and kiss,
And I am supposed to  avoid love,
Because a black is ugly,
Because a black is ugly.
Have I, then,  been given no heart?
I am also fond of girls
I am also fond of girls,
Always to live without a woman
	Would  truly be the blaze of hell,
	Would  truly be the blaze of hell,

	So, therefore I want, because I am
alive,
.	Bill and coo,  kiss,  be tender.
	Dear, good moon, forgive me, 	
	A white took possession of me,
	A white took possession of me,
    White is beautiful!  I  must
kiss her;
	      Moon, hide yourself for this!
	Should it vex you too much,
		Oh, then close your eyes!
			Oh, then close your eyes!
		Oh, then close your eyes!


He then is about to rape Pamina when the all-good and seriously dull Sarastro shows up and saves her.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the way, if Mike Antonovich thinks that Mozart is a racially sensitive substitute for Wagner, he hasn't <a href="http://www.aria-database.com/translations/magic_flute.txt" rel="nofollow">paid attention to the libretto of <em>The Magic Flute</em> recently.</a>  Consider this aria by Monostatos, an evil henchman of the Queen of the Night, variously referred to as a "Moor", whose dark skin is frequently referenced, singing about how he can't have the lovely young Pamina:</p>
<p>MONOSTATOS</p>
<p>All feel the joy of love,<br />
Bill and coo, flirt, snuggle,<br />
and kiss,<br />
And I am supposed to  avoid love,<br />
Because a black is ugly,<br />
Because a black is ugly.<br />
Have I, then,  been given no heart?<br />
I am also fond of girls<br />
I am also fond of girls,<br />
Always to live without a woman<br />
	Would  truly be the blaze of hell,<br />
	Would  truly be the blaze of hell,</p>
<p>	So, therefore I want, because I am<br />
alive,<br />
.	Bill and coo,  kiss,  be tender.<br />
	Dear, good moon, forgive me,<br />
	A white took possession of me,<br />
	A white took possession of me,<br />
    White is beautiful!  I  must<br />
kiss her;<br />
	      Moon, hide yourself for this!<br />
	Should it vex you too much,<br />
		Oh, then close your eyes!<br />
			Oh, then close your eyes!<br />
		Oh, then close your eyes!</p>
<p>He then is about to rape Pamina when the all-good and seriously dull Sarastro shows up and saves her.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken</title>
		<link>http://www.popehat.com/2009/07/15/every-time-you-play-the-1812-overture-a-woman-is-battered/comment-page-1/#comment-35884</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 18:18:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.popehat.com/?p=5377#comment-35884</guid>
		<description>Despise the man, love some of his work, find some of the rest of it dreary.  (Tannhauser is great, great, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.popehat.com/2009/01/02/opera-an-acquired-taste/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;great.&lt;/a&gt;)

I&#039;m sympathetic to Jag&#039;s quote above, as there are some artists whose lives are so repellent that I cannot enjoy their work.  (Ezra Pound, for example.)  So I make the personal choice not to view/read/listen to their work.  Some people who led contemptible lives produced art so great that I am able to enjoy it.  That&#039;s an entirely idiosyncratic response generated by my view of their particular brand of asshattery and by how good their art is.  

If the L.A. Opera wants to make its own personal choice to stop performing Wagner, that&#039;s their call, like mine is to listen to it or not.  But I don&#039;t like a politician -- who wields the power to make L.A. Opera&#039;s life unpleasant in all sorts of ways -- telling them what they ought or ought not perform.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Despise the man, love some of his work, find some of the rest of it dreary.  (Tannhauser is great, great, <a href="http://www.popehat.com/2009/01/02/opera-an-acquired-taste/" rel="nofollow">great.</a>)</p>
<p>I'm sympathetic to Jag's quote above, as there are some artists whose lives are so repellent that I cannot enjoy their work.  (Ezra Pound, for example.)  So I make the personal choice not to view/read/listen to their work.  Some people who led contemptible lives produced art so great that I am able to enjoy it.  That's an entirely idiosyncratic response generated by my view of their particular brand of asshattery and by how good their art is.  </p>
<p>If the L.A. Opera wants to make its own personal choice to stop performing Wagner, that's their call, like mine is to listen to it or not.  But I don't like a politician &#8212; who wields the power to make L.A. Opera's life unpleasant in all sorts of ways &#8212; telling them what they ought or ought not perform.</p>
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		<title>By: Jag</title>
		<link>http://www.popehat.com/2009/07/15/every-time-you-play-the-1812-overture-a-woman-is-battered/comment-page-1/#comment-35883</link>
		<dc:creator>Jag</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 18:07:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.popehat.com/?p=5377#comment-35883</guid>
		<description>Somewhat of a complicated issue. While I don&#039;t agree with a ban on his music in the US, the sensitivity to Wagner&#039;s music is understandable, especially for people who suffered in the Holocaust. It&#039;s more than just simple disagreement with the composer or his subject matter. That said there is a movement in Israel to lift the ban on the Ring and Wagner is already being introduced in small doses.

This is an interesting article on Wagner:
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/Wagner.html

and provides some insight to why he remains a sensitive subject for many Jews.

&quot;While it cannot be maintained that Wagner was directly responsible for German national socialism, there is no doubt that he was a powerful symbol in the Nazi era, and his music held a singular importance in the Nazi psyche. Thus, for Jewish survivors of the Nazi horrors, Wagner&#039;s music represents a vivid reminder of that regime. &quot;

Even more interesting is Wagner&#039;s great grandson:

&quot;As a listener, I consider Tristan und Isolde a masterpiece of 19th century music, but I am at the same time repelled by Wagner&#039;s Weltanschauung. I cannot just sit and enjoy his music. I never put on Wagner&#039;s music in my home... Richard Wagner&#039;s antisemitic writings will always overshadow my life.&quot; So says Gottfried Wagner, the composer&#039;s great-grandson, who recently visited Israel on a lecture tour. &quot;I cannot separate the operas from his theoretical work. His writings and his music form a unified whole... He always considered himself a philosopher first, and a composer only second,&quot; says Gottfried Wagner, who has been disowned by his family and lives under threat from neo-Nazi groups. He spends his professional life writing and lecturing on the antisemitism of Richard Wagner and its consequences on German politics and culture. &quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Somewhat of a complicated issue. While I don't agree with a ban on his music in the US, the sensitivity to Wagner's music is understandable, especially for people who suffered in the Holocaust. It's more than just simple disagreement with the composer or his subject matter. That said there is a movement in Israel to lift the ban on the Ring and Wagner is already being introduced in small doses.</p>
<p>This is an interesting article on Wagner:<br />
<a href="http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/Wagner.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/Wagner.html</a></p>
<p>and provides some insight to why he remains a sensitive subject for many Jews.</p>
<p>"While it cannot be maintained that Wagner was directly responsible for German national socialism, there is no doubt that he was a powerful symbol in the Nazi era, and his music held a singular importance in the Nazi psyche. Thus, for Jewish survivors of the Nazi horrors, Wagner's music represents a vivid reminder of that regime. "</p>
<p>Even more interesting is Wagner's great grandson:</p>
<p>"As a listener, I consider Tristan und Isolde a masterpiece of 19th century music, but I am at the same time repelled by Wagner's Weltanschauung. I cannot just sit and enjoy his music. I never put on Wagner's music in my home&#8230; Richard Wagner's antisemitic writings will always overshadow my life." So says Gottfried Wagner, the composer's great-grandson, who recently visited Israel on a lecture tour. "I cannot separate the operas from his theoretical work. His writings and his music form a unified whole&#8230; He always considered himself a philosopher first, and a composer only second," says Gottfried Wagner, who has been disowned by his family and lives under threat from neo-Nazi groups. He spends his professional life writing and lecturing on the antisemitism of Richard Wagner and its consequences on German politics and culture. "</p>
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