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	<title>Comments on: Religious Pharmacists Currently Developing a Plan B</title>
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	<link>http://www.popehat.com/2009/07/10/developing-a-plan-b/</link>
	<description>A Group Complaint about Law, Liberty, and Leisure</description>
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		<title>By: Tim Fowler</title>
		<link>http://www.popehat.com/2009/07/10/developing-a-plan-b/comment-page-1/#comment-36415</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Fowler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 23:32:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.popehat.com/?p=5308#comment-36415</guid>
		<description>I think the religious freedom argument is somewhat weak constitutionally.  Not ridiculous, but weak.   So I can&#039;t really say this is a horrible court decision in terms of doing what the court is supposed to be doing interpreting the law and the constitution.

   The real problem here is the law in the first place.  I have a big problem with making laws requiring people to sell particular things.  There&#039;s an even bigger problem in situations of serious moral or religious objection to selling it, but even a law requiring the sale of say toothbrushes would be something I&#039;d have a problem with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the religious freedom argument is somewhat weak constitutionally.  Not ridiculous, but weak.   So I can't really say this is a horrible court decision in terms of doing what the court is supposed to be doing interpreting the law and the constitution.</p>
<p>   The real problem here is the law in the first place.  I have a big problem with making laws requiring people to sell particular things.  There's an even bigger problem in situations of serious moral or religious objection to selling it, but even a law requiring the sale of say toothbrushes would be something I'd have a problem with.</p>
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		<title>By: Charles</title>
		<link>http://www.popehat.com/2009/07/10/developing-a-plan-b/comment-page-1/#comment-36409</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 22:54:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.popehat.com/?p=5308#comment-36409</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not criticizing his constitutional scholarship. I&#039;m criticizing the internal logic of his joke.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I'm not criticizing his constitutional scholarship. I'm criticizing the internal logic of his joke.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Fowler</title>
		<link>http://www.popehat.com/2009/07/10/developing-a-plan-b/comment-page-1/#comment-36408</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Fowler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 22:49:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.popehat.com/?p=5308#comment-36408</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think the blogger seriously thought that his constitutional rights would be violated by the supermarket dropping a brand of rice.   He wasn&#039;t making a constitutional argument at all, nether was I (not with my link to his post, or any of my other comments here).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don't think the blogger seriously thought that his constitutional rights would be violated by the supermarket dropping a brand of rice.   He wasn't making a constitutional argument at all, nether was I (not with my link to his post, or any of my other comments here).</p>
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		<title>By: Charles</title>
		<link>http://www.popehat.com/2009/07/10/developing-a-plan-b/comment-page-1/#comment-36402</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 21:39:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.popehat.com/?p=5308#comment-36402</guid>
		<description>That blogger - and, by extension, you - get the &quot;constitutional rights&quot; structure of the issue wrong, Tim. There is a statutory requirement in Washington that pharmacies carry and dispense Plan B. The pharmacists are seeking a Constitution-based exemption from that requirement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That blogger &#8211; and, by extension, you &#8211; get the "constitutional rights" structure of the issue wrong, Tim. There is a statutory requirement in Washington that pharmacies carry and dispense Plan B. The pharmacists are seeking a Constitution-based exemption from that requirement.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Fowler</title>
		<link>http://www.popehat.com/2009/07/10/developing-a-plan-b/comment-page-1/#comment-36401</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Fowler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 21:33:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.popehat.com/?p=5308#comment-36401</guid>
		<description>http://hertzlinger.blogspot.com/2009/07/my-constitutional-rights-are-being.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://hertzlinger.blogspot.com/2009/07/my-constitutional-rights-are-being.html" rel="nofollow">http://hertzlinger.blogspot.com/2009/07/my-constitutional-rights-are-being.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: David Schwartz</title>
		<link>http://www.popehat.com/2009/07/10/developing-a-plan-b/comment-page-1/#comment-35748</link>
		<dc:creator>David Schwartz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 09:47:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.popehat.com/?p=5308#comment-35748</guid>
		<description>&quot;As I said before, though I understand the libertarian argument that anyone should be able to refuse to sell anything to anyone, if we respected the pharmacists’ wishes here we’d be inconsistent, elevating certain religious beliefs above all other motivations and morals and beliefs.&quot;

How would we be inconsistent? In virtually every other arena, we allow people who run stores to choose which products they do and don&#039;t wish to sell and allow customers who are unsatisfied to shop elsewhere.

It seems that we are being inconsistent here by treating pharmacists with religious objections different from every other case where a vendor doesn&#039;t want to sell a product.

(And don&#039;t compare it to a doctor who has, say moral scruples against surgery and won&#039;t tell the patient that surgery is their best choice. The pharmacist who doesn&#039;t wish to provide plan B is not providing a defective product or misleading his customers.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"As I said before, though I understand the libertarian argument that anyone should be able to refuse to sell anything to anyone, if we respected the pharmacists’ wishes here we’d be inconsistent, elevating certain religious beliefs above all other motivations and morals and beliefs."</p>
<p>How would we be inconsistent? In virtually every other arena, we allow people who run stores to choose which products they do and don't wish to sell and allow customers who are unsatisfied to shop elsewhere.</p>
<p>It seems that we are being inconsistent here by treating pharmacists with religious objections different from every other case where a vendor doesn't want to sell a product.</p>
<p>(And don't compare it to a doctor who has, say moral scruples against surgery and won't tell the patient that surgery is their best choice. The pharmacist who doesn't wish to provide plan B is not providing a defective product or misleading his customers.)</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Fowler</title>
		<link>http://www.popehat.com/2009/07/10/developing-a-plan-b/comment-page-1/#comment-35720</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Fowler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 01:46:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.popehat.com/?p=5308#comment-35720</guid>
		<description>David Schwartz  - Re: &quot;What if the only grocery store in a small rural community chose to suddenly stop selling food?&quot;

  1 - It would probably go out of business.

  2 - People would get their food in the nearest neighboring community.

  3 - If their is sufficient income opportunity in that community someone else will be likely to open a store and sell food.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David Schwartz  &#8211; Re: "What if the only grocery store in a small rural community chose to suddenly stop selling food?"</p>
<p>  1 &#8211; It would probably go out of business.</p>
<p>  2 &#8211; People would get their food in the nearest neighboring community.</p>
<p>  3 &#8211; If their is sufficient income opportunity in that community someone else will be likely to open a store and sell food.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Fowler</title>
		<link>http://www.popehat.com/2009/07/10/developing-a-plan-b/comment-page-1/#comment-35719</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Fowler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 01:42:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.popehat.com/?p=5308#comment-35719</guid>
		<description>Re: &quot;With a few church-based exceptions, we don’t give faith-based exemptions for anti-discrimination laws, for instance. Why treat this instance of faith differently?&quot;

  I wouldn&#039;t treat it differently.  I respect freedom of association and allow most forms of private discrimination.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: "With a few church-based exceptions, we don’t give faith-based exemptions for anti-discrimination laws, for instance. Why treat this instance of faith differently?"</p>
<p>  I wouldn't treat it differently.  I respect freedom of association and allow most forms of private discrimination.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Fowler</title>
		<link>http://www.popehat.com/2009/07/10/developing-a-plan-b/comment-page-1/#comment-35717</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Fowler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 01:39:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.popehat.com/?p=5308#comment-35717</guid>
		<description>Joshua -  Yes the restrictions on prescription drugs where not intended to make abortion or contraception more difficult, but in the case where talking about they can do that.   Lack of intent is no excuse, at least not after the situation comes about.   As for the pharmacists and &quot;deliberately making it more difficult&quot; - That&#039;s not a reasonable way to describe not assisting someone.  The government is the only party imposing restrictions on the actions of others here.  The pharmacists are only &quot;making it more difficult&quot;, in the same sense that me not giving you a car could in theory make it more difficult for your to drive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joshua &#8211;  Yes the restrictions on prescription drugs where not intended to make abortion or contraception more difficult, but in the case where talking about they can do that.   Lack of intent is no excuse, at least not after the situation comes about.   As for the pharmacists and "deliberately making it more difficult" &#8211; That's not a reasonable way to describe not assisting someone.  The government is the only party imposing restrictions on the actions of others here.  The pharmacists are only "making it more difficult", in the same sense that me not giving you a car could in theory make it more difficult for your to drive.</p>
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		<title>By: Charles</title>
		<link>http://www.popehat.com/2009/07/10/developing-a-plan-b/comment-page-1/#comment-35684</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 16:39:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.popehat.com/?p=5308#comment-35684</guid>
		<description>A pharmacy can accommodate an objecting pharmacist by having a second pharmacist on duty to fill the Rx but a pharmacy can not refuse to fill a prescription. 

A pharmacy doesn&#039;t have to stock literally everything, but under state law &quot;the pharmacy must maintain at all times a representative assortment of drugs in order to meet the pharmaceutical needs of its patients.&quot; There is no pharmaceutical equivalent for Plan B, so this may be tantamount to a requirement that it be regularly stocked, though I think there is wiggle room in the law for running out of something temporarily.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A pharmacy can accommodate an objecting pharmacist by having a second pharmacist on duty to fill the Rx but a pharmacy can not refuse to fill a prescription. </p>
<p>A pharmacy doesn't have to stock literally everything, but under state law "the pharmacy must maintain at all times a representative assortment of drugs in order to meet the pharmaceutical needs of its patients." There is no pharmaceutical equivalent for Plan B, so this may be tantamount to a requirement that it be regularly stocked, though I think there is wiggle room in the law for running out of something temporarily.</p>
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		<title>By: TomH</title>
		<link>http://www.popehat.com/2009/07/10/developing-a-plan-b/comment-page-1/#comment-35681</link>
		<dc:creator>TomH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 16:18:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.popehat.com/?p=5308#comment-35681</guid>
		<description>** required to ** carry or make available</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>** required to ** carry or make available</p>
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		<title>By: TomH</title>
		<link>http://www.popehat.com/2009/07/10/developing-a-plan-b/comment-page-1/#comment-35680</link>
		<dc:creator>TomH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 16:18:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.popehat.com/?p=5308#comment-35680</guid>
		<description>Yes, Charles, agreed about heavy regulation.  But what is the purpose of a &quot;must make available&quot; regulation?  Is every pharmacist in the country reqto carry or make available on order, every conceivable medication?  Or just PlanB?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, Charles, agreed about heavy regulation.  But what is the purpose of a "must make available" regulation?  Is every pharmacist in the country reqto carry or make available on order, every conceivable medication?  Or just PlanB?</p>
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		<title>By: Charles</title>
		<link>http://www.popehat.com/2009/07/10/developing-a-plan-b/comment-page-1/#comment-35674</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 15:34:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.popehat.com/?p=5308#comment-35674</guid>
		<description>The sale of prescription pharma is a heavily regulated industry. It includes detailed restrictions on what can be sold, the circumstances of sale, and licenses for those who sell it. Among the reasons the government regulates the area so stringently, beyond the inherent danger of the drugs, is the intimacy of the interaction between pharmacist and customer and, sometimes, the exigency of the transaction. The consequence of entering the field is that you can&#039;t substitute your judgment for that of the physician or the government. If you want to make a broad libertarian attack on licensing requirements, go right ahead, but it is a battle you aren&#039;t going to win. The day that you can get OTC morphine is not coming soon, nor is the day that I get to hang a shingle that says &quot;Charles&#039; Surgical Services&quot; until I get an MD.

I have no problem saying that if you won&#039;t do the job, you can&#039;t do the job.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The sale of prescription pharma is a heavily regulated industry. It includes detailed restrictions on what can be sold, the circumstances of sale, and licenses for those who sell it. Among the reasons the government regulates the area so stringently, beyond the inherent danger of the drugs, is the intimacy of the interaction between pharmacist and customer and, sometimes, the exigency of the transaction. The consequence of entering the field is that you can't substitute your judgment for that of the physician or the government. If you want to make a broad libertarian attack on licensing requirements, go right ahead, but it is a battle you aren't going to win. The day that you can get OTC morphine is not coming soon, nor is the day that I get to hang a shingle that says "Charles' Surgical Services" until I get an MD.</p>
<p>I have no problem saying that if you won't do the job, you can't do the job.</p>
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		<title>By: TomH</title>
		<link>http://www.popehat.com/2009/07/10/developing-a-plan-b/comment-page-1/#comment-35672</link>
		<dc:creator>TomH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 15:21:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.popehat.com/?p=5308#comment-35672</guid>
		<description>If the small shop stopped selling food: 1) go to next town; 2) open a grocery store and make a killing.  Same goes for PlanB.  I am sure there are enough pharmacists around that even if several were so principled that they would stop selling, at least a few would make a lot of money through lack of that particular principle (they may have many other laudable principles mind you, just not that one) or subordination of principle to practicality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the small shop stopped selling food: 1) go to next town; 2) open a grocery store and make a killing.  Same goes for PlanB.  I am sure there are enough pharmacists around that even if several were so principled that they would stop selling, at least a few would make a lot of money through lack of that particular principle (they may have many other laudable principles mind you, just not that one) or subordination of principle to practicality.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken</title>
		<link>http://www.popehat.com/2009/07/10/developing-a-plan-b/comment-page-1/#comment-35660</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 13:34:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.popehat.com/?p=5308#comment-35660</guid>
		<description>As I said before, though I understand the libertarian argument that anyone should be able to refuse to sell anything to anyone, if we respected the pharmacists&#039; wishes here we&#039;d be inconsistent, elevating certain religious beliefs above all other motivations and morals and beliefs.  With a few church-based exceptions, we don&#039;t give faith-based exemptions for anti-discrimination laws, for instance.  Why treat this instance of faith differently?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I said before, though I understand the libertarian argument that anyone should be able to refuse to sell anything to anyone, if we respected the pharmacists' wishes here we'd be inconsistent, elevating certain religious beliefs above all other motivations and morals and beliefs.  With a few church-based exceptions, we don't give faith-based exemptions for anti-discrimination laws, for instance.  Why treat this instance of faith differently?</p>
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